Is there any evidence for a 4th family of particles?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the potential existence of a fourth family of particles within the framework of the standard model of particle physics. Participants explore the implications of such a family, the evidence for existing families, and the nature of neutrino oscillations. The conversation includes theoretical considerations, experimental evidence, and the relationships between different types of particles, including leptons and quarks.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether there is any reason to suspect the existence of a fourth or additional families of matter particles, noting that if they existed, they might be difficult to produce.
  • There is a discussion about the prediction and discovery of the top quark, with some participants asserting that it was predicted by the standard model.
  • Some participants propose that neutrinos may oscillate between different states, suggesting a possible analogy with the behavior of other leptons, although this remains uncertain.
  • One participant mentions that gauge bosons are not typically considered a family of particles in the same sense as leptons and quarks.
  • There are references to theoretical discussions about a fourth "sterile" neutrino flavor, which some papers suggest could address issues with neutrino oscillations.
  • Experimental evidence from LEP is cited, indicating that the width of the Z boson resonance suggests there are only three families of neutrinos, although this is contingent on the assumption that all neutrinos are light.
  • Some participants discuss the implications of a fourth generation of quarks, including the potential for small couplings to the existing generations and the effects on CP-violation.
  • There is a suggestion that if a fourth generation of quarks exists, a corresponding generation of leptons should also exist, although they may be undetectable.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the existence of a fourth family of particles, with some arguing for its possibility while others cite evidence suggesting only three families exist. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing views presented.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on the assumption that all neutrinos are light for the conclusions drawn from the Z boson resonance data, as well as the unresolved nature of the relationships between different particle generations.

  • #31
Not to go on a religious statement, but I don't like violating the EP.

The Sterile neutrino is a simple way to correct the minimal See-Saw mechanism, which is nice and elegant (again theoretical prejudice).

But here's my quick thoughts on why Sterile neutrinos are nice

1) They are present in my favorite GUT theory SO(10)

2) there's a missing entry in the minimal SDM, the right handed neutrino. Identification of this with a sterile would balance each family out in a historically known way (left-right and quark-lepton similarity provided the incentive for GIM)

A good paper on neutrino oscillations is hep-ph/0306075

Btw, if CPT is violated, that would be so cool!
 
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  • #32
Several people have commented that one of the reasons that they do not think a fourth generation exists is that the fourth generation neutrino would have to be larger than M_Z/2. Since the three neutrinos that we know of have very tiny masses, this seems unnatural to some people. However, this really isn't as unnatural as it might seem. If the Yukawa matrix for Dirac neutrinos in a four-generation model happens to be close to rank 1, then this results in one large mass eigenstates and three small mass eigenstates. In the limit that the Yukawa matrix is rank 1, the result is one non-zero mass eigenstate and three eigenstates with zero mass. So, it would actually be somewhat natural to have three light neutrinos with a heavy fourth generation neutrino.
 

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