Is there any mechanism possible for the Big Brake?

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    Dark energy Mechanism
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of the "Big Brake," a hypothetical scenario in which dark energy could change its properties, leading to a sudden halt in the expansion of the universe. Participants explore the implications of this idea, the validity of related theories, and the nature of dark energy itself, with a focus on theoretical and speculative aspects.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants reference papers suggesting that dark energy could change sign, leading to extreme deceleration and a static universe.
  • Others argue that the description of dark energy changing sign is inaccurate and that the proposed "big brake" equation of state does not align with known physics.
  • A participant expresses skepticism about the speculative nature of these theories, indicating that they lack a foundation in current understanding.
  • Concerns are raised about the credibility of popular science articles, such as those from Scientific American, which may present unverifiable claims regarding the "big brake" scenario.
  • One participant poses a hypothetical question about the effects on visible objects if space were to stop expanding suddenly, prompting a discussion on the need for a mechanism to facilitate such a change.
  • Another participant emphasizes that without a known mechanism for stopping the expansion of space, the implications of such a scenario remain speculative.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement on the interpretation of dark energy and the feasibility of the "big brake" concept. There is no consensus on the validity of the theories discussed, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications and mechanisms involved.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the speculative nature of the theories presented, the dependence on definitions of dark energy, and the lack of established mechanisms for the proposed scenarios. The discussion highlights the uncertainty surrounding future behaviors of dark energy and the implications of sudden changes in cosmic expansion.

Trollfaz
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https://arxiv.org/abs/0705.1688
https://ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2014IJMPD..2350054P/abstract
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/time-s-end-will-be-the-end-of-endings/
According to these references they suggest that dark energy can suddenly change sign and causing the universe expansion to stop and turn static immediately, resulting in extreme(infinite) deceleration.
Is this just a speculation if how dark energy evolves in the future. As far as I know we have no idea how dark energy behaves in the far future that's why scientist come up with a lot of theories.
 
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Trollfaz said:
According to these references they suggest that dark energy can suddenly change sign
I don't think this is a good description. I realize it appears in the Scientific American article, but that's a pop science article and should not be taken as an accurate description of the actual physics.

The first paper you reference describes the "big brake" equation of state as ##p = A / \rho##, which is nothing at all like dark energy (dark energy is ##p = - \rho##). It is also nothing like matter or radiation, and in fact is nothing like anything we have ever observed. The paper makes no claim whatever about what would bring about such an equation of state, or whether it is even physically reasonable (my answer to that would be "no").

Trollfaz said:
Is this just a speculation if how dark energy evolves in the future.
It's certainly a speculation, and one without any foundation in what we currently know, as far as I can see; it's just an abstract investigation into the implications of a particular mathematical model. But, as above, it has nothing to do with dark energy.

Trollfaz said:
As far as I know we have no idea how dark energy behaves in the far future
If you want to discard everything we currently know about physics and say that anything goes, then of course we have no idea about how anything behaves in the far future. But that does not strike me as a fruitful way to proceed.

Trollfaz said:
that's why scientist come up with a lot of theories.
Scientists come up with a lot of speculations because (a) it's fun, and (b) it helps to generate more published papers. The vast majority of these speculations never result in anything relevant to our actual universe.

Note also that the point of the first paper is to show that quantum effects prevent the classical "big brake" scenario from actually happening.
 
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PeterDonis said:
I don't think this is a good description. I realize it appears in the Scientific American article,
Yes the Scientific American article does in fact make a lot of unverifiable claims like the big lurch in the picture which has no supporting reference as well as the claim that phantom energy freezes everything in place.
 
An interesting aside to the question: what if space did stop expanding suddenly? What would be the effect on visible objects like galaxies and black holes?
 
James William Hall said:
An interesting aside to the question: what if space did stop expanding suddenly? What would be the effect on visible objects like galaxies and black holes?
You'd have to provide a mechanism by which it could "suddenly stop". Since we aren't aware of one, we can't really answer the question.

Honestly, in this context "space expanding" is not the best description of what's going on, although there are good reasons why people use it. The simplest way to put it is that galaxies move apart for the same reason a pool ball keeps rolling: inertia. It's complicated by the curvature of spacetime, which is where the "expanding space" explanation comes in, but at the root of it if you want to stop "space expanding" you just need to stop all the galaxies. We don't know a mechanism that can do that - hence my first paragraph.
 
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