Is There Proof That God Exists?

[onycho]

Originally posted by onycho

Originally posted by FZ+

I just found this really significant information on the Univ of Ediacara where they found some jelly fish fossils that they say predates the Cambrian period explosion of all species that we have today. The Cambrian period dates from 490 to 540 million years ago are purportedly dated to the proximate same time frame. What a joke...

http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/cambrian/camb.html

Where did "Ediacara" come from?

The name "Ediacara" (pronounced Edi-ak-ra) comes from the Ediacara fauna, the first example of multicelled metazoans found in the fossil record. The significance of the fauna was first realized by geologists in South Australia, who found abundant fossils at the Ediacara Hills in the Flinders Ranges, about 650 km north of Adelaide. They realized that not only did the fauna contain jellyfish, soft corals and possibly worms and proto-arthropods, similar to modern forms, but that the fauna was significantly older than any other animal fossils yet found (600-540 million years old), even predating the Cambrian explosion. Whilst debate still continues as to the exact nature of the fauna, few now doubt that at least some of the forms represent examples of modern animal groups. The origin of the metazoa and thus all animal groups must now be placed even further back in time, and may never be found, since it is thought that the precursor organisms were miofaunal - tiny worm-like organisms living in the interstitial spaces between sand grains and thus having little chance of fossilizing.

"Ediacara" thus represents not only a major milestone in the history life on Earth, but also in the history of the Internet, being - as it is - the worlds first virtual university.

http://www.ediacara.org/ediacara.html

 

[onycho]

Originally posted by Zero

Nothing about ID is established at all...and there is no real effort to establish anything scientific anyways. The point of ID is to convince people who already believe in creationism that their religious beliefs have a scientific basic. Behe has never, to my knowledge, done any research in a biological field. Instead, he cuts and pastes other people's work selectively, and then draws false conclusions from them.

A little of the background on Dr. Behe. To your knowledge is very meaningful you have no knowledge, you say.

Michael J. Behe is professor of biological sciences at Lehigh University in Pennsylvania, a senior fellow of the Discovery Institute's Center for Science and Culture (CSC), and a fellow of the International Society for Complexity Information and Design (ISCID). Behe's current research involves computer simulation of the evolution of protein binding sites.

Dr. Behe graduated from Drexel University in 1974 with a Bachelor of Science in chemistry. He did his graduate studies in biochemistry at the University of Pennsylvania and was awarded a Ph.D. in 1978 for his dissertation research on sickle-cell anemia. From 1978 to 1982 he did postdoctoral work on DNA structure at the National Institutes of Health. From 1982 to 1985 he was assistant professor of chemistry at Queens College in New York City, where he met his wife. In 1985 he moved to Lehigh University.

In addition to publishing more than 35 articles in refereed biochemical journals, Dr. Behe has written editorial features in the Boston Review, American Spectator, and New York Times. His book, Darwin's Black Box, discusses the implications for neo-Darwinism of what he calls "irreducibly complex" biochemical systems. In his writings, Behe does not contest Darwinian evolution for animals or plants; his claim is that evolution cannot explain a few subcellular structures.

 

[Zero]

First off, you DO realize that the Discovery Institute is a front for religious organizations, and is not an actual center of scientific research, don't you?

And, well...I pointed out specifically that I didn't know what actual work he had done, in addition to his propaganda work...but did you know about the Discovery Institute?

 

[onycho]

Originally posted by Zero

First off, you DO realize that the Discovery Institute is a front for religious organizations, and is not an actual center of scientific research, don't you?

Oh my goodness... A religious front that masqarades as an institute. Imagine that... You should take a look at the Discovery Institute and see who comprises their departments. Heads of US government agencies, scientists, physicians and many more.

http://www.discovery.org/fellows/

And, well...I pointed out specifically that I didn't know what actual work he had done, in addition to his propaganda work...but did you know about the Discovery Institute?

Apparently Zero there appears to be a great deal that you don't know. I suspect that you don't like the evidence, so like many, attack the messenger.

The following is the stated mission of this scientific institute which is well respected in the scientific community around the world.

http://www.discovery.org/

Mission Statement

Discovery Institute's mission is to make a positive vision of the future practical. The Institute discovers and promotes ideas in the common sense tradition of representative government, the free market and individual liberty. Our mission is promoted through books, reports, legislative testimony, articles, public conferences and debates, plus media coverage and the Institute's own publications and Internet website ( http://www.discovery.org ).

Current projects explore the fields of technology, science and culture, reform of the law, national defense, the environment and the economy, the future of democratic institutions, transportation, religion and public life, government entitlement spending, foreign affairs and cooperation within the bi-national region of "Cascadia." The efforts of Discovery fellows and staff, headquartered in Seattle, are crucially abetted by the Institute's members, board and sponsors.

-------------------------
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.

ATTRIBUTION: Thomas Jefferson

 

[TENYEARS]

onycho, that was funny, but I never said anyone else does not understand. I only know what I understand, much in this world is belief and 99.999 percent do not know the difference. It is not that they do not have the capacity or the ability, but it is that they do not have the desire. If you want truth, you must go beyond the written word into a basic place, where there is only the simplest of things. Here and only here can the universe form. It is fun to collect knowlege, the world is amazing, but to know the truth for just a moment is even more cool, because it is real. To experience this knowledge is the destiny of all people, the question is when and with the direction that the planet is heading, the question arises in what capacity.

Tell me, what do you believe, what do you know?

 

[Zero]

LMAO!

The Discovery Institute is NOT a respected international scientific organization in any way, shape, or form. They are a political organization set up to fool suckers.

 

[onycho]

Originally posted by TENYEARS

onycho, that was funny, but I never said anyone else does not understand. I only know what I understand, much in this world is belief and 99.999 percent do not know the difference. It is not that they do not have the capacity or the ability, but it is that they do not have the desire. If you want truth, you must go beyond the written word into a basic place, where there is only the simplest of things. Here and only here can the universe form. It is fun to collect knowlege, the world is amazing, but to know the truth for just a moment is even more cool, because it is real. To experience this knowledge is the destiny of all people, the question is when and with the direction that the planet is heading, the question arises in what capacity. Tell me, what do you believe, what do you know?

The fact is that I know nothing whatsoever. That being said, I can read research papers, (I am a physician) think about what I have read, observe, separate the wheat from the chaff and be ready to change my perception in light of new scientific evidence presented by great thinkers and researchers and with work reveiwed by critics and peers.

I find that there is something very mysterious going on in the world of research and technology. There are questions that have great significance for me.

1) What is our universe?
2) What is on the other side of our universe?
3) What is consciousness and intellect?
4) What are particles and what is energy or gravity?
5) What is real and what is it in this universe that we assume exists?
6) What was there before the so-called big-bang?
7) Why do particles (inlcuding photons) appear to have an innate wisdom of their own? (as reproduced many times over in experimentation around the world)
8) Why does it appear that all matter in the universe seem to be aware of all other particles? (Bell's Theory)
9) Why must humans have a code of ethical and moral behavior? (When we could be like the beasts of the field)
10) Is there a possibility that nothing is real except our consciousness in a timeless dimension?

Check out the following site and read it carefully. It seems to answers a great deal of my questions.

http://www.holomall.com/Holographic Universe.htm

Mind you, nothing is provable or written in concrete.

 

[TENYEARS]

1) What is our universe? x
2) What is on the other side of our universe? x
3) What is consciousness and intellect? x
4) What are particles and what is energy or gravity? x
5) What is real and what is it in this universe that we assume exists? x
6) What was there before the so-called big-bang? x
7) Why do particles (inlcuding photons) appear to have an innate wisdom of their own? (as reproduced many times over in experimentation around the world) x
8) Why does it appear that all matter in the universe seem to be aware of all other particles? (Bell's Theory) x
9) Why must humans have a code of ethical and moral behavior? (When we could be like the beasts of the field) x
10) Is there a possibility that nothing is real except our consciousness in a timeless dimension? X

I have already answered these questions for myself without reading. It is just a matter of time before a vision I had comes true. It was a level B vision. You are physican, here is a good one for you I saw a man who was on deaths door once. He was my next door neighbor and I was friends with his son. He had MS and could not walk for years without even being able to move his legs. My aunt and mother gave he and his wife tickets to see a priest healer. Two days later, the door bell rang, he was standing there walking. Holding this new metal cross which is handed out to all the participants of the mass. The cross was blankend by the bolts of electricity that shot from the priest and electrified the man. It looked as if it had been hit by a large quantity of electricity.

I am not exagerating or lieing. Every word is true. It was because of this experience that my own search for truth was excellerated. I am no self consoling fool and yet we all are. Yea by the way this man was requested to be on national television years ago and was, because even the doctors could not explain his miraculous recovery. Now being logical you could say it was physocsematic and he was misdiagnosed even though he could not walk, but what of the cross. How is it that a human being can discharge large amounts of electricity in this way. Chemcial imbalance? Maybe, maybe not. I can see the future(sometimes). He was healed.

Because of the above 10 questions, I know how such a thing is possible.

 

[onycho]

Originally posted by TENYEARS

I have already answered these questions for myself without reading. It is just a matter of time before a vision I had comes true. It was a level B vision. You are physican, here is a good one for you I saw a man who was on deaths door once. He was my next door neighbor and I was friends with his son. He had MS and could not walk for years without even being able to move his legs. My aunt and mother gave he and his wife tickets to see a priest healer. Two days later, the door bell rang, he was standing there walking. Holding this new metal cross which is handed out to all the participants of the mass. The cross was blankend by the bolts of electricity that shot from the priest and electrified the man. It looked as if it had been hit by a large quantity of electricity.
I am not exagerating or lieing. Every word is true. It was because of this experience that my own search for truth was excellerated. I am no self consoling fool and yet we all are. Yea by the way this man was requested to be on national television years ago and was, because even the doctors could not explain his miraculous recovery. Now being logical you could say it was physocsematic psychosomatic and he was misdiagnosed even though he could not walk, but what of the cross. How is it that a human being can discharge large amounts of electricity in this way. Chemcial imbalance? Maybe, maybe not. I can see the future(sometimes). He was healed. Because of the above 10 questions, I know how such a thing is possible.

What you experienced is known as a sudden healing experience. You saw static electricity jump from the metal cross to the neighbor with MS and he was suddenly healed. You see future events and now think you understand all things.

Actually this type of event is not new. I have seen cancer patients close to death suddenly have a remission from their disease. I have seen people crippled or with severe strokes, people with severe heart damage and disease all heal and planes that crash into a ball of flame, have more than half the passengers survive. Mysteries or unexplained. Even Jesus Christ is said to have healed the sick, made the blind see and make the dead rise. But these events are also reported to have occurred long before Christ's appearance on this Earth and since his crucifixion.

Do you remember the Star Trek series with Captain Kirk? There was a fictional episode when a young strong ship captain was on a planet where he suffered a severe accident resulting in his being deformed, blind, wheelchair bound and in severe pain all the time. The fictional aliens on this planet had the ability to place a new reality into the mind (consciousness) of that man where he returned to his former healthy self with all the strength and feelings he had prior to the accident. But all was as he assumed existed in his mind's eye.

What if 'we' all exist as consciousness in a picture or hologram that our mind's eye perceives as reality and life on this planet? That would explain many things. What is the limit of our universe, how do such complex events occur that are totally impossible to happen by pure chance events over millions of years. That would explain the nature of matter, gravity, energy and what and where you were before you were born and where you will be after you leave this veil of tears. That unseen hand that formed this holographic image for our consciousness in a timeless dimension would be the driving force, something like those fictional aliens in Star Trek episode.

But this is only my opinion. The following site I gave in previous post explains my own perspective.

http://www.holomall.com/Holographic Universe.htm

 

[FZ+]

The content of this copied paragarph simply says 'it ain't so' with no attempt to validate or give proof of the premise that irreducible complexity is non-existant.

What the hell are you talking about?

(a) I did not copy that paragraph.
(b) The link contains proof that while irreducible complexity does exist, it does arrive through evolution.
(c) Why are you using ad hominem attacks?
(d) Talk origins is simply a server host that happens to be run in whatever university it is. In the same way that Greg hosts this page. The contributers are their own, and are usually not in the university.
(e) Behe simply does not know what he is talking about. That is the end of it. It does not matter who was, or what he works for (as Zero correctly stated, the Discovery Institute is a front, behind such initiatives as the "Wedge Project" http://www.infidels.org/secular_web/feature/1999/wedge.html and http://www.au.org/churchstate/cs5023.htm
) - science does not work on arguments from authority. His ideas mark him out as a fool to those who do know what they are talking about.

For fun, quotes from the Discovery Institute:

"To tell you the truth, I’m not real knowledgeable about creationism," Behe said.

"The job of apologetics is to clear the ground, to clear obstacles that prevent people from coming to the knowledge of Christ," Dembski said. "And if there’s anything that I think has blocked the growth of Christ [and] the free reign of the Spirit and people accepting the Scripture and Jesus Christ, it is the Darwinian naturalistic view... It’s important that we understand the world. God has created it; Jesus is incarnate in the world."

As Institute President Bruce Chapman told The Washington Times, "[Intelligent design is] our number one project."

 

[Nath]

God is an oudated instituition for the uneducated and meek. The concepts main task is to instill order through fear in a population, this benefits the state, hence the historical yet publicly challenged co-existence of church and state.

The concept is possibly THE ultimate evil - what better disguise for Lucifer?

I would give my eye teeth to view the finances of the Vatican. The only legal organisation on Earth not subjected to legal / public financial audits.

 

[onycho]

Originally posted by FZ+

What the hell are you talking about?
(a) I did not copy that paragraph.

Actually you did not copy your paragraph, you plagarized it. Let's take a look at that paragraph of yours again.

The critical error made is to once again implant the creationist idea of set goals to work to. It doesn't happen like that. The production of many "irreducibly complex" organs have been demonstrated by either peripherals shifting to different functions, or by the development of redundant systems that disappear, in the same way as scaffolding is removed. In the analogy of the watch, in constructing the watch, additional features like clamps exist, and then are removed. Many of these redundant features that are disappearing can still be seen. (eg. the appendix) Behe is a laughing stock of the biological community.http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/behe.html

If you wrote this paragraph on your own, why would you include a reference to some appendix not present in your post?

You are therefore obviously a blatant thief of other peoples ideas and written words therey invalidating anything you state about Behe has the same credibility as your own ability to lie.

Ad hominem attacks are apparently your tool and trade when talking about an institution that is recognized for its integrity and truthfullness. Unlike others like yourself.

The remainder of your post is thereby irrelevant.

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by onycho
Originally posted by FZ+

What the hell are you talking about?
(a) I did not copy that paragraph.

Actually you did not copy your paragraph, you plagarized it. Let's take a look at that paragraph of yours again.



If you wrote this paragraph on your own, why would you include a reference to some appendix not present in your post?

You are therefore obviously a blatant thief of other peoples ideas and written words therey invalidating anything you state about Behe has the same credibility as your own ability to lie.

Ad hominem attacks are apparently your tool and trade when talking about an institution that is recognized for its integrity and truthfullness. Unlike others like yourself.

The remainder of your post is thereby irrelevant.

You are frasping at straws, because you know the facts don't support your position.



And, of course, there you go claiming that the Discovery Institute is well-respected, which is an appeal to authority, and also simply not true. The Discovery Institute is a joke, a front, and a religious and poliical organization. Show me a non-creationist and non-rightwing group that "respects" the Discovery Institute. They are a FRONT, and they are LYING TO YOU. Don't you get it, or is your faith so weak that you need lies to prop it up?


The Discovery Institute is, for instance, well respected at Christianity.com ...as a ministry, not as a scientific organization.

 

[TENYEARS]

Originally posted by onycho
Originally posted by TENYEARS


What you experienced is known as a sudden healing experience. You saw static electricity jump from the metal cross to the neighbor with MS and he was suddenly healed. You see future events and now think you understand all things.

********************************************************************
*** The electricity went from the priest through the individual who was holding a cross in the palm of his closed hand. The cross was "blackend" not a spot of black but blankend to the point where you would only see if you had a bad electrical connection which was arcing over a long period of time or a sudden relase of high voltage.

Wake up.

********************************************************************


Actually this type of event is not new. I have seen cancer patients close to death suddenly have a remission from their disease. I have seen people crippled or with severe strokes, people with severe heart damage and disease all heal and planes that crash into a ball of flame, have more than half the passengers survive. Mysteries or unexplained. Even Jesus Christ is said to have healed the sick, made the blind see and make the dead rise. But these events are also reported to have occurred long before Christ's appearance on this Earth and since his crucifixion.



********************************************************************

"Yes Elisa". Fact is they were all returned to health, what is needed to see would be the accelerated reproduction of a body part or mend beyond the bodies normal means to heal in any statisticlly derived possibility. This would have to be witnessed and made public. This would infer that the conciousness was capable of redirecting energy to accelerate healing. In this case I would unequivically be the only choice, with any reasonable allowance for statistical probablity.

********************************************************************



Do you remember the Star Trek series with Captain Kirk? There was a fictional episode when a young strong ship captain was on a planet where he suffered a severe accident resulting in his being deformed, blind, wheelchair bound and in severe pain all the time. The fictional aliens on this planet had the ability to place a new reality into the mind (consciousness) of that man where he returned to his former healthy self with all the strength and feelings he had prior to the accident. But all was as he assumed existed in his mind's eye.


********************************************************************

No. The only way to the father is though the son. Zero this one is for you. It sounds like a christian spouting the superiority of christ right. Wrong. This statements intent is to say, the only way to god is through gods creation(Son). In essence the materialist transformation of what you are made of. This transformation is purely physical energy process. What it leads to is logical, but I cannot take you there, you must go through yourself to find yourself.

********************************************************************


What if 'we' all exist as consciousness in a picture or hologram that our mind's eye perceives as reality and life on this planet? That would explain many things. What is the limit of our universe, how do such complex events occur that are totally impossible to happen by pure chance events over millions of years. That would explain the nature of matter, gravity, energy and what and where you were before you were born and where you will be after you leave this veil of tears. That unseen hand that formed this holographic image for our consciousness in a timeless dimension would be the driving force, something like those fictional aliens in Star Trek episode.
http://www.holomall.com/Holographic Universe.htm

Ok, I may or may not rip your belief, but I do rip your realization. You are satisfied with opionion, and belief, aspects of this may be true or it may be pure fanstasy. You you are a physican, I suppose you don't have much time to think of the mysteries of this life. I once had huge chunks of time years ago, I used them.

I have physical explantions for every one of the questions you pose. Real answers figured out by me and sometimes the answers were far more than idea black box stored in my mind. Pure thought. Pure sweat. Real answers. When you are ready, you will do that yourself.

My concern as I will restate in the past is the planet and our lack of responsiblity to it, our childrens future and the "continued cycle of life". If humans understood this, the world would change.

Your post on creation was good, build on it or go deeper.

 

[FZ+]

If you wrote this paragraph on your own, why would you include a reference to some appendix not present in your post?

Oh my... Look at your nearest dictionary. Look up appendix, about the second definition.

2: a vestigial process that extends from the lower end of the cecum and that resembles a small pouch

The appendix in a human example of a vestigial organ. It is a left over of a human digestive system that was not irreducibly complex, that is in the process of being removed to leave a more efficient, and less complicated system. It is an example that in evolution, less is often more, and things do not always build up. Basic anatomy, anyone?

EDIT: I might have considered attaching an appendix, but the goriness... may have been rather messy.

 

[onycho]

Plagarize

Originally posted by FZ+

You are frasping (?Spelling) at straws, because you know the facts don't support your position.

I suppose you are trying to say 'grasping' at straws. Actually you are grabbing for a flotation device when you have grabbed onto an anchor. Just disclaiming the obvious does not relieve you from intellectual dishonesty. When you use other people's works, all you have to do is quote it or give some indication of the work product as being from the person you use as reference.

Definition: Plagiarize

1. To use and pass off (the ideas or writings of another) as one's own.
2. To appropriate for use as one's own passages or ideas from (another).

INTRANSITIVE VERB: To put forth as original to oneself the ideas or words of another.

Stealing other people intellectual property as your own is not permitted on this site.

You are being reported to this site's mentor for action at his discretion.

Any derogatory statements you make about the Discovery Institute remains in the same light as a plagiarizer and thief you are. Dr. Behe's work is beyond reproach and you are an ignormaous.

Have fun...

 

[Zero]

This just gets better and better...


Obviously, Behe's work is the opposite of "above reproach", since generally scientists think he is wrong, and for the reason of practicing bad science.

Keep hiding behind your blind faith in liars, though...I don't understand why you wouldn't be dismayed at the Discovery Institute for intellectual dishonesty, but I guess they are following the Biblical call to lie in the name of religious faith.

 

[onycho]

Originally posted by Zero

You are frasping at straws, because you know the facts don't support your position.

Learn to spell before you accuse others. You are putting yourself in the same light as a plariarizer of other people' works.


You make accusations of others like Dr. Behe with nothing more than invectives and distortions about religious bias.

You are a little man who is also a bigot.

 

[onycho]

Originally posted by Zero

This just gets better and better... Obviously, Behe's work is the opposite of "above reproach", since generally scientists think he is wrong, and for the reason of practicing bad science.Keep hiding behind your blind faith in liars, though...I don't understand why you wouldn't be dismayed at the Discovery Institute for intellectual dishonesty, but I guess they are following the Biblical call to lie in the name of religious faith.

How is it that you think that making libelous claims proves anything when you have no evidence for these accusations.

You are apparently born an microcephalic moron. Get a life...

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by onycho
Originally posted by Zero

You are frasping at straws, because you know the facts don't support your position.

Learn to spell before you accuse others. You are putting yourself in the same light as a plariarizer of other people' works.


You make accusations of others like Dr. Behe with nothing more than invectives and distortions about religious bias.

You are a little man who is also a bigot.

LOL

If a group claims to be non-religious, and then it turns out to be a religious organization, that makes them liars, right?

Are you related to Behe, BTW? Is there a reason that you pretend that he is an unquestionable authority?

 

[Zero]

Ok, onycho, here's your one and only warning: you are attacking members of PF for attacking public figures and organizations. Our attacks on Behe and the Discovery "Institute" are fair play; your attacks on us are not. Stop making personal attacks, remove yourself from conversations that make you too angry to control yourself, or find some other place to post.

 

[onycho]

Originally posted by TENYEARS

Ok, I may or may not rip your belief, but I do rip your realization. You are satisfied with opionion, and belief, aspects of this may be true or it may be pure fanstasy. You you are a physican, I suppose you don't have much time to think of the mysteries of this life. I once had huge chunks of time years ago, I used them.

Rip away... You apparently have large chunks but I do not think you are referring to time.

I have physical explantions for every one of the questions you pose. Real answers figured out by me and sometimes the answers were far more than idea black box stored in my mind. Pure thought. Pure sweat. Real answers. When you are ready, you will do that yourself.

You have PURE imagination but I doubt you have one idea about anything as you seem to be unwilling to share these brilliant, out of this world ideas about everything?

My concern as I will restate in the past is the planet and our lack of responsiblity to it, our childrens future and the "continued cycle of life". If humans understood this, the world would change.

Are you a 'tree-hugger'? The amazing thing is that this world has a built in continuous ecosystem to cleans itself no matter what humans or volcanos do the planet. Long before there were homosapiens, the Earth had ice ages, major temperature changes without one car burning fuel or pollution being pumped into the air or sea. You apparently haven't the faintest idea about the magic built into this world for anything man can do to it. The future of mankind will have nothing to do with the world enviornment but more like the ability to destroy themselves with the invention of the subatomic world's mysteries (the atom).

Your post on creation was good, build on it or go deeper.

If I could go deeper, I would be a god.

 

[FZ+]

You are being reported to this site's mentor for action at his discretion.

That would be her. Kerrie is female.

For the meantime, you might consider bringing your righteous fury to the maths forum, where their plagarism is evidence by terms such as indices, and numbers. (obvious reference to page numbers) Also, try that Values thread where they talk about being content. Long live the cause of justice!

 

[onycho]

Originally posted by Zero

Ok, onycho, here's your one and only warning:

Uh Oh, you are so scary...

you are attacking members of PF for attacking public figures and organizations. Our attacks on Behe and the Discovery "Institute" are fair play; your attacks on us are not. Stop making personal attacks, remove yourself from conversations that make you too angry to control yourself, or find some other place to post.

Angry, me? You attack without one shred of proof or evidence with just accusations and envy of those scientists who are so far above your intellectual level.

Anger is always concerned with individuals, ... whereas hatred is directed also against classes: we all hate any thief or any informer. Moreover, anger can be cured by time; but hatred cannot. The one aims at giving pain to its object, the other at doing him harm; the angry man wants his victim to feel; the hater does not mind whether they feel or not.

ATTRIBUTION: Aristotle (384–322 B.C.

 

[Zero]

I don't envy anyone who cannot be honest about their intentions. That pretty much overs the entire Discovery Institute...they are liars, and frauds.

Actually, their crime is worse than that. What makes them so horrible is how the corrupt the intellectual integrity of the people who trust them. I think it is great that people look beyond the attitude of "the Bible says so, so it is true" and try to find out whether their beliefs are backed up by reason and science. Maybe that is why I am so upset that the best they can find is something like the Discovery Institute. They aren't good Christians, because they denounce their Christian ties, but they aren't good scientists, because they start out with the Bible, and manipulate the data to fit that worldview. They are in fact the worst of both worlds, and should be rightly denounced by both sides.

 

[Zero]

Oh, and BTW, I'm not "scary", but I'm a mentor on PF, and I am informing you that you violating PF rules.

 

[onycho]

Originally posted by Nath

God is an oudated instituition for the uneducated and meek. The concepts main task is to instill order through fear in a population, this benefits the state, hence the historical yet publicly challenged co-existence of church and state. The concept is possibly THE ultimate evil - what better disguise for Lucifer? I would give my eye teeth to view the finances of the Vatican. The only legal organisation on Earth not subjected to legal / public financial audits.

Ignorance must be bliss... Your Marxist concepts are very revealing about your fears of the unknown.

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by onycho
Originally posted by Zero

This just gets better and better... Obviously, Behe's work is the opposite of "above reproach", since generally scientists think he is wrong, and for the reason of practicing bad science.Keep hiding behind your blind faith in liars, though...I don't understand why you wouldn't be dismayed at the Discovery Institute for intellectual dishonesty, but I guess they are following the Biblical call to lie in the name of religious faith.

How is it that you think that making libelous claims proves anything when you have no evidence for these accusations.

You are apparently born an microcephalic moron. Get a life...

Just saving this so it can't be edited out later...evidence, it isn't just for scientists!

 

[onycho]

Originally posted by Zero

LOL If a group claims to be non-religious, and then it turns out to be a religious organization, that makes them liars, right? Are you related to Behe, BTW? Is there a reason that you pretend that he is an unquestionable authority?

1) Where do you find any claim that any group claims to be non-religious?

2) No I am not related to Dr. Behe, have never met him and know him only from his books and papers.

3) I have never pretended that Dr. Behe is an unquestional source, it is you who make unsubstantiated statements to the contrary.

 

[onycho]

Originally posted by Zero

Just saving this so it can't be edited out later...evidence, it isn't just for scientists!

WHAT? What kindergarten did you graduate from?