- #26

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I also agree to this viewpointPlease don't!

And they shouldn't. ##0## is a human achievement and nothing natural.

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- Thread starter Logical Dog
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- #26

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I also agree to this viewpointPlease don't!

And they shouldn't. ##0## is a human achievement and nothing natural.

- #27

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Also, axiomatic set theory is pretty clear on the issue that ##0## should be a natural number. You'd make a mess out of the theory otherwise.

- #28

fresh_42

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Hmm, I'd rather say funny. In any case it's a nice example how to code something huge in a small number of digits.You think Graham's number is natural?

- #29

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Did we invent the numbers? or discover them?

- #30

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Meh, once you rigorously define those terms, we might find an answer. So far, nobody has really given a satisfactory definition.Did we invent the numbers? or discover them?

- #31

fresh_42

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But this argument is essentially practicability as it is to exclude units to be prime. I have no problem when people work with ##\mathbb{N}_0## though.

Also, axiomatic set theory is pretty clear on the issue that ##0## should be a natural number. You'd make a mess out of the theory otherwise.

- #32

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ok boss..this is all way over my head. xDMeh, once you rigorously define those terms, we might find an answer. So far, nobody has really given a satisfactory definition.

- #33

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Well, clearly you don't think math should be elegant. I think elegance trumps everything else. And if you believe in elegance, ##0## should be a natural.But this argument is essentially practicability as it is to exclude units to be prime. I have no problem when people work with ##\mathbb{N}_0## though.

- #34

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number is undefined, so is point, proposition, true, false, set, element...

- #35

fresh_42

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Oh no. I won't turn into this ... Far too obvious!Well, clearly you don't think math should be elegant. I think elegance trumps everything else. And if you believe in elegance, ##0## should be a natural.

- #36

mfb

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Compromise:

Include 0 only half. Is that natural enough?

Include 0 only half. Is that natural enough?

- #37

fresh_42

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- #38

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Some tribes count as ##1,2,3,\text{many}##. So I deny that the number ##10## is very natural.

- #39

jbriggs444

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It's just another name for 2.Some tribes count as ##1,2,3,\text{many}##. So I deny that the number ##10## is very natural.

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