Is This a Valid Simplification of Einstein's Equations?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the simplification of Einstein's Equations, specifically examining the implications of taking the trace and rewriting the equations in different forms. Participants explore the validity and practicality of these simplifications within the context of general relativity.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a simplification of Einstein's Equations by taking the trace, resulting in the equation ##R=-{\kappa}T^{\mu}_{\mu}##, and questions its validity and practicality.
  • Another participant acknowledges that while the trace equation is valid, it does not contain as much information as the original equations, noting that certain metrics could satisfy the trace without satisfying the full field equations.
  • A subsequent post suggests that rewriting the equations in various forms, such as ##R_{\mu\nu}=-{\kappa}T_{\mu\nu}##, raises questions about whether they retain the same information as the original equations.
  • It is noted that writing ##R_{\mu\nu}=-{\kappa}T_{\mu\nu}## is only true in the case of a vacuum solution, and that the simplifications lead to a loss of equations, reducing the number of equations from four to one.
  • Another participant mentions that while the simplification is simpler, it results in fewer equations, but acknowledges that the remaining equation can provide significant physical insight.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity and completeness of the proposed simplifications. There is no consensus on whether the simplified forms carry the same information as the original equations, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these simplifications.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in the simplifications, such as the loss of information and the conditions under which certain forms hold true. The dependence on specific cases, like vacuum solutions, is also noted.

Physicist97
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Einstein's Equations are usually written ##R_{\mu\nu}-(1/2)g_{\mu\nu}R={\kappa}T_{\mu\nu}## , where ##\kappa## is a constant. If you were to multiply both sides by ##g^{\mu\nu}## , then this becomes ##R=-{\kappa}g^{\mu\nu}T_{\mu\nu}## . I have used the relations ##g^{\mu\nu}g_{\mu\nu}=4## and ##R=g^{\mu\nu}R_{\mu\nu}## . ##g^{\mu\nu}T_{\mu\nu}## is the trace of the Stress Energy Tensor, which now leaves you with ##R=-{\kappa}T^{\mu}_{\mu}## . It seems to me that writing the Einstein Field Equations this way simplifies them, but I've never seen them written this way. Have I done something wrong using this approach, or is it not practical to write them in this form? Thank you for any explanation :).
 
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What you've done is to take the trace of both sides of the Einstein field equations. The result is valid, but it doesn't contain as much information as the original field equations. A metric could satisfy it without satisfying the field equations.

For example, if the stress-energy tensor is that of an electromagnetic field, then its trace is zero. Suppose that on the left-hand side we put the metric of Minkowski space. Then the trace equation is satisfied, but Minkowski space is not a solution of the field equations when there is an electromagnetic field present.
 
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Would it then be better to write ##R=-{\kappa}g^{\mu\nu}T_{\mu\nu}## , ##g^{\mu\nu}R_{\mu\nu}=-{\kappa}g^{\mu\nu}T_{\mu\nu}## , ##R_{\mu\nu}=-{\kappa}T_{\mu\nu}## . I understand why the other equation didn't carry enough information. The Einstein Equations are actually 16 equations (10 due to symmetric tensors), and writing the trace takes away information, but this way you once again have 16 equations. Written as ##R_{\mu\nu}=-{\kappa}T_{\mu\nu}## would it carry the same information? Is it even right to write it like this?
 
Physicist97 said:
Written as ##R_{\mu\nu}=-{\kappa}T_{\mu\nu}## would it carry the same information? Is it even right to write it like this?

Written this way it isn't true. This would only be true in the case of a vacuum solution (right-hand side = 0).

Physicist97 said:
##R=-{\kappa}g^{\mu\nu}T_{\mu\nu}##
This could be more compactly written as ##R=-T^\mu{}_\mu##. (Let's take ##\kappa=1##.) The metric raises an index. This is a true statement about the trace, but doesn't carry as much information as the full field equations.

Physicist97 said:
##g^{\mu\nu}R_{\mu\nu}=-{\kappa}g^{\mu\nu}T_{\mu\nu}##

This is just a longer way of writing the preceding equation.
 
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Physicist97 said:
Einstein's Equations are usually written ##R_{\mu\nu}-(1/2)g_{\mu\nu}R={\kappa}T_{\mu\nu}## , where ##\kappa## is a constant. If you were to multiply both sides by ##g^{\mu\nu}## , then this becomes ##R=-{\kappa}g^{\mu\nu}T_{\mu\nu}## . I have used the relations ##g^{\mu\nu}g_{\mu\nu}=4## and ##R=g^{\mu\nu}R_{\mu\nu}## .

It's certainly simpler, but you've lost some equations along the way - you are down to one equation after the contraction, wheras the full set has four equations. But Baez does basically this in some of his lecture notes on GR - for instance http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/gr/outline2.html. I think there was another webpage by Baez which was en more similar than this, but I'm not quite sure which one.

The one equation you have left though does give a lot of physical insight, though, I think Baez discusses this as wll.
 
pervect said:
I think there was another webpage by Baez which was en more similar than this, but I'm not quite sure which one.

The one equation you have left though does give a lot of physical insight, though, I think Baez discusses this as wll.
This looks like it might be the article you were referring to . . . ?
 

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