Is this Dirac Ket Bra correct?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the correctness of a mathematical equation involving two-body and one-body operators in quantum mechanics, specifically in the context of Dirac notation. Participants explore the implications of tensor product states and the nature of the operators involved, seeking clarification and proof in real space.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the correctness of the equation involving operators A and B, asking for proof in real space.
  • Another participant assumes |km⟩ is a tensor product state and discusses how the equation simplifies under certain conditions, particularly when A is separable.
  • A participant clarifies that operator A represents a Coulomb interaction and is not separable, while operator B is a kinetic term, questioning the validity of the initial equation.
  • Concerns are raised about the compatibility of the operators A and B, particularly regarding their definitions and the spaces they act upon.
  • One participant emphasizes that every operator can be approximated by separable operators, suggesting a potential avenue for discussion.
  • A participant expresses a need for help in proving the equation, indicating uncertainty about their own understanding.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of the operators and the validity of the equation. There is no consensus on whether the equation is correct, and multiple competing perspectives on the definitions and properties of the operators remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the importance of understanding how operators A and B are defined and their implications for the equation. The discussion reflects uncertainty regarding the separability of the operators and the appropriate mathematical treatment of the problem.

PRB147
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A B are two-body and one-body operators respectively.
Is the following equation correct? If so, Would you give me the proof in real space?
[tex]\sum\limits_{ijklm}\langle ij|A|km \rangle \langle m |B |l\rangle= \sum\limits_{ijkl}\langle ij|A B |k l\rangle[/tex]
 
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I assume |km> is a tensor product state. [itex]|km\rangle=|k\rangle\otimes|m\rangle[/itex].

If [itex]A=A_1\otimes A_2[/itex], then [itex]\langle ij|A|km\rangle=\langle i|A_1|k\rangle\langle j|A_2|m\rangle[/itex], so when you do the sum over m, you get

[tex]\sum_{ijkl}\langle i|A_1|k\rangle\langle j|A_2B|l\rangle[/tex]

If A2 is the identity operator, this simplifies to

[tex]\sum_{ijkl}\langle i|A_1|k\rangle\langle j|B|l\rangle=\sum_{ijkl}(\langle i|\otimes\langle j|)(A_1|k\rangle\otimes B|l\rangle)=\sum_{ijkl}\langle ij|(A_1\otimes B)|kl\rangle[/tex]

Notational abuse is common when dealing with tensor products. If you write [itex]A_1=A[/itex], i.e. [itex]A=A\otimes I[/itex], and [itex]AB=A\otimes B[/itex], even though this doesn't really make sense, you get an expression that looks the way you want it to. But is it really the same? You need to think about how your A and B are defined, and in particular if they're defined the same way at different places in your equation.

I don't know what you mean by "real space".
 
Last edited:
Thank you for your reply.
Yes, the state can be represented by the tensor product, but the operator A is not so.
Here , A is coulomb interaction and is not separable, B is the kinetic term.
Is the above equation correct?
 
PRB147 said:
Is the above equation correct?
This would be a good time for you to post your own attempt to prove that it is. (It's sort of the custom around here. If you want help with something, show us what you've done so far).
 
what's the rule for matrix multiplication for a 4x4 matrix and a 2x2 matrix?
as operators they act on completely different spaces! there is no way to
compose them (if AB is "do B then A").

what you have written is wrong.

Fredrik said:
You need to think about how your A and B are defined, and in particular if they're defined the same way at different places in your equation.
exactly!
 
PRB147 said:
Here , A ... is not separable
Every operator is a limit of linear combinations of separable operators.
 
Thank You all!
I can not prove, then I ask for help.
 

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