Is True Randomness a Fundamental Aspect of the Universe?

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SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the existence of true randomness in the universe, particularly at subatomic levels. Participants argue that while quantum mechanics is often viewed as inherently random, the underlying reality remains uncertain. Key concepts include the role of hidden variables, the implications of Bell's inequality, and the deterministic nature of certain mathematical sequences like pi. Ultimately, the consensus is that true randomness may exist, but proving it is complex and requires further exploration.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of quantum mechanics and its probabilistic nature.
  • Familiarity with Bell's inequality and local hidden variable theories.
  • Knowledge of deterministic versus stochastic processes in physics.
  • Basic grasp of statistical models and chaos theory.
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  • Research the implications of Bell's inequality in quantum mechanics.
  • Explore the concept of hidden variables in quantum theory.
  • Study the differences between deterministic and stochastic models in physics.
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Physicists, philosophers of science, and anyone interested in the foundational questions of randomness and determinism in quantum mechanics.

  • #31
lasix said:
If your question is regarding nature - Yes randomness exists. Why was that the last potato chip? Why did a tree grow there? Why are you the way you are and your genes mix the way they did upon conception...

If your question is regarding random number/number generators/roulette wheel - No. There is always some bias weather it is due to the amount of ink on the bingo ball making it somewhat heavier. an ever so slightly different shape to the lotto ball that makes it catch the air differently. A so slightly manufactured roulette wheel with 0.030 inch tolerances for size variation... or a number matrix used to calculate the next "random" number - which could of course be utilized to calculate the next number if the formula and matrix were known.

Why do you think that similar small biases and correlations don't exist in the things that you list in your first paragraph?
 
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  • #32
Interesting thread.

Even if there is a hidden mechanism explaining the apparent randomness on a quantum level, quantum physics explicitly prevents us from accessing that information.

Thus QM, for all intents and purposes is random.

That's the general gist I get from QM people I talk to anyway.

Claude.
 
  • #33
random my butt

Notwithstanding Daudo's, "...discard out of hand any non-local explanation.", I propose that, "Perfect randomness is impossible."! If this is true, (please don't, "discard this out of hand"), then which of the three laws of thermodynamics is wrong?
 
  • #34
atoms555 said:
Notwithstanding Daudo's, "...discard out of hand any non-local explanation.", I propose that, "Perfect randomness is impossible."! If this is true, (please don't, "discard this out of hand"), then which of the three laws of thermodynamics is wrong?

Why would any of them have to be wrong? Can you elaborate the point of the question?
 
  • #35
Classical mechanics carried the general knowledge that everything was predictable. There is now a fair amount of experimental evidence within quantum mechanics saying that many things in our universe are random.
 
  • #36
Great question, dilsfunspot. I propose that perfect randomness not only doesn't exist--it is impossible! If this is true, what is the ramification of this in physics?
 
  • #37
I don't think that randomness exist. Technically you can study every particle and it's place in space and you can pretty much know what's going to happen next. Everything happens for a reason
 
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