Is V* ≠ {0} in Normed Spaces Easily Demonstrable?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the existence of non-zero continuous linear functionals in normed spaces, specifically questioning whether V* is non-empty (V*≠{0}) and the role of the Hahn-Banach theorem in establishing this property. The scope includes theoretical aspects of functional analysis and properties of normed spaces.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about an easy demonstration that V*≠{0} in normed spaces and questions the necessity of the Hahn-Banach theorem for this proof.
  • Another participant states that in finite-dimensional spaces, V* is always non-empty, while for infinite-dimensional spaces, the Hahn-Banach theorem is required to find a nontrivial bounded functional.
  • A participant expresses confusion regarding the continuity of the norm and suggests that the norm itself could be considered a linear functional, arguing that it is non-zero unless the functional is zero.
  • Another participant counters that the norm is not linear, providing a specific example to illustrate this point.
  • A later reply acknowledges the previous point and retracts their earlier statement, indicating a shift in understanding.
  • One participant reflects on the challenge posed by the textbook's suggestion to consider why V*≠{0}, expressing uncertainty about whether the exercise is meant to be solvable or to highlight the need for the Hahn-Banach theorem.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit disagreement regarding the nature of the norm as a linear functional and the implications of the Hahn-Banach theorem. There is no consensus on whether an easy demonstration exists for V*≠{0} without invoking the theorem.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the definitions and properties of linear functionals and norms, as well as the implications of dimensionality on the existence of non-zero functionals.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to students and researchers in functional analysis, particularly those exploring properties of normed spaces and the application of the Hahn-Banach theorem.

Fredrik
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Is there an easy way to see that if V is a (non-empty and non-trivial) normed space, there exists a non-zero continuous linear functional on V? To put it another way: Is there an easy way to see that V*≠{0}?. Do we have to use the Hahn-Banach theorem for this?
 
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If V is finite dimensional, then V* is always nonempty.
But for infinite-dimensional space, you will have to use Hahn-Banach. This theorem will give you a nontrivial bounded functional.
 


Sorry if this is nonsense, it's been a while, but isn't the norm continuous by definition?
I.e. isn't
[tex]|| \cdot || : V \to \mathbb{R}, f \mapsto ||f||[/tex]
a linear functional on V?
Clearly it is non-zero, because ||f|| = 0 iff f = 0.
 


Norm is not linear because for [itex]v\neq 0[/itex]

[tex]||-v||\neq -||v||[/tex]
 


Good point.
Never mind I said something.

* whistles and shuffles away innocently *
 


Thanks, that's what I thought. I got a little confused by the fact that immediately before stating the Hahn-Banach theorem, the book suggested that I think about why V*≠{0}. It's hard to know if I'm supposed to try and succeed, or try and fail just to see that we need a fancy theorem.
 

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