Is x2+16 Prime? Understanding the Nature of this Polynomial

  • Thread starter Thread starter JR Sauerland
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Prime
Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the polynomial expression x² + 16, with participants exploring its nature in terms of primality and irreducibility. The context includes algebraic reasoning and polynomial factorization.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants attempt to determine whether the polynomial can be factored or if it is prime in the algebraic sense. Questions arise about the conditions under which x² + 16 can yield prime values for integer inputs, as well as the implications of irreducibility over different number fields.

Discussion Status

There is an ongoing exploration of the polynomial's properties, with some participants questioning the clarity of the original problem statement. Guidance has been offered regarding the distinction between primality in the number sense and irreducibility in algebra. Multiple interpretations of the problem are being discussed.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the need for clarity on the definitions of prime and irreducible, as well as the implications of different number fields on the polynomial's properties. There is also mention of potential confusion regarding the roots of the polynomial and the correct application of algebraic principles.

JR Sauerland
Gold Member
Messages
44
Reaction score
0

Homework Statement


x2+16

Homework Equations


?

The Attempt at a Solution


If you attempt to solve it with (x+4)(x+4), it results in x2+8x+16, which is not equivalent. I believe it may be prime. I am looking for the formula (if there is any) to explain this. Allow me to give an example:
a2+2ab+b2 <<< This is the square of a binomial formula. Does my type of problem have a formula that explains its nature? If it's prime, how would I phrase it? axn+b=?

edit: back of the book states it is prime. Oops :p
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
Well if x = 2k, with k some natural number then we get (2k)^2 +16. Is that prime?
 
dirk_mec1 said:
Well if x = 2k, with k some natural number then we get (2k)^2 +16. Is that prime?
I honestly have no idea :oops: 2k2+16... It seems like we can factor out a 2. 2(k2+8)?
 
JR Sauerland said:

Homework Statement


x2+16

Homework Equations


?

The Attempt at a Solution


If you attempt to solve it with (x+4)(x+4), it results in x2+8x+16, which is not equivalent. I believe it may be prime. I am looking for the formula (if there is any) to explain this. Allow me to give an example:
a2+2ab+b2 <<< This is the square of a binomial formula. Does my type of problem have a formula that explains its nature? If it's prime, how would I phrase it? axn+b=?

edit: back of the book states it is prime. Oops :p

Your question is unclear. I can see two possible meanings: (1) is ##x^2 + 16## a prime number when ##x## is an integer?
(2) Is the polynomial ##x^2 + 16## prime (= "irreducible?") in the algebraic sense?

In case (1) the answer is NO: ##p(x) = x^2 + 16## is the prime number 17 when ##x = 1##, but for ##x = 0, 2, 3, 4, \ldots## it is not prime. I suppose a valid question is whether ##p(x)## can ever be prime again for some integer ##x \geq 2##. I don't have the answer to that.

In case (2) you need to specify the number field or ring over which you polynomials taken; that is, what types of numbers will you allow in a factorization? Your polynomial ##p(x)## is irreducible (="prime"?) over the integers, rationals or reals, but is reducible (not prime?) over the complex numbers.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Student100 and thelema418
Ray Vickson said:
Your question is unclear. I can see two possible meanings: (1) is ##x^2 + 16## a prime number when ##x## is an integer?
(2) Is the polynomial ##x^2 + 16## prime (= "irreducible?") in the algebraic sense?

In case (1) the answer is NO: ##p(x) = x^2 + 16## is the prime number 17 when ##x = 1##, but for ##x = 0, 2, 3, 4, \ldots## it is not prime. I suppose a valid question is whether ##p(x)## can ever be prime again for some integer ##x \geq 2##. I don't have the answer to that.

In case (2) you need to specify the number field or ring over which you polynomials taken; that is, what types of numbers will you allow in a factorization? Your polynomial ##p(x)## is irreducible (="prime"?) over the integers, rationals or reals, but is reducible (not prime?) over the complex numbers.

In my experience, case (2) is what this means. I much prefer the terminology irreducible over . . . rather than prime, but many textbooks, esp. high school level books prefer the word prime.

Following back to JR Sauerland's original question, this is an interesting problem to consider tactics for proof. What techniques or methods can you use to argue that this cannot be reduced over the reals? There are several arguments that could be made. Feel free to demonstrate that this is not reducible.
 
JR Sauerland said:

Homework Statement


x2+16

What are the roots of x^2+16? In other words, what are the values of x (if there are any) such that x^2+16=0.

JR Sauerland said:
dirk_mec1 said:
Well if x = 2k, with k some natural number then we get (2k)^2 +16. Is that prime?
I honestly have no idea :oops: 2k2+16... It seems like we can factor out a 2. 2(k2+8)?

If x=2k, then x^2=(2k)^2=2^2k^2=4k^2 and not 2k^2. Also, make sure to add parentheses where necessary, because 2k^2 is different to (2k)^2 since exponents have higher precedence than multiplying, so 2k^2=2(k^2). Finally this means that you should be able to factor out a 4 in (2k)^2+16 to get 4(k^2+4).

But alas this isn't going to help you solve your problem because what you've asked can be mistaken for a harder problem. What you're looking for is to find if the polynomial is irreducible as has been already mentioned.
 

Similar threads

Replies
39
Views
6K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
9K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 93 ·
4
Replies
93
Views
16K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
3K