Isolated points must be boundary points?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between isolated points and boundary points in the context of set theory and topology. Participants explore definitions and properties of these concepts, particularly in metric and topological spaces, and consider how these definitions may vary across different mathematical frameworks.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant defines an isolated point as a point in a set that has a neighborhood containing no other points from the set, while a boundary point is defined as a point where every neighborhood contains points from both the set and its complement.
  • Another participant argues that isolated points can be boundary points in the context of R^n, but provides a counterexample using the discrete topology where all points are isolated but there are no boundary points.
  • A later reply questions whether the relationship holds in standard Euclidean space and seeks clarification on the most general metric space for which isolated points are boundary points.
  • One participant presents a proof showing that if a point is isolated, it must also be a boundary point in certain conditions, specifically in metric spaces without isolated points.
  • There is mention of alternative definitions of boundary and interior, suggesting that different definitions may lead to different conclusions about the relationship between isolated and boundary points.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether isolated points must always be boundary points, with some agreeing it holds in R^n while others provide counterexamples in discrete topologies and question the generality of the claim.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the dependence on specific definitions and the context of the spaces being considered, indicating that conclusions may vary based on the chosen mathematical framework.

Bipolarity
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In the textbook I am working with, an isolated point of A is defined to be a point X in A such that there exists a neighborhood (open ε-ball) centered on X containing no point in A other than X itself.

A boundary point of A (which need not be in A) is defined as a point X in A such that every open ε-ball centered on X contains at least one point in A and at least one point not in A.

Is it the case that isolated points must be boundary points? Most textbooks use definitions other than the one I'm using, hence I am very confused.

Also, maybe this is true for metric spaces but not for topological spaces?

BiP
 
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That is how I first saw these concepts defined, and are probably the most practical definitions when dealing with R^n. Isolated points are indeed boundary points when working with R^n.

A quick way to see that isolated points need not be boundary points is to take any non-empty set, X, and equip it with the discrete topology (all subsets are open). Then for any subset A of X, all points of A are isolated but A has no boundary points (since singletons are open in the discrete topology).

This can also fail for metric spaces, which can be seen by considering the integers with the metric topology. The metric topology is the discrete topology in this case, hence the above argument holds.
 
Axiomer said:
That is how I first saw these concepts defined, and are probably the most practical definitions when dealing with R^n. Isolated points are indeed boundary points when working with R^n.

A quick way to see that isolated points need not be boundary points is to take any non-empty set, X, and equip it with the discrete topology (all subsets are open). Then for any subset A of X, all points of A are isolated but A has no boundary points (since singletons are open in the discrete topology).

This can also fail for metric spaces, which can be seen by considering the integers with the metric topology. The metric topology is the discrete topology in this case, hence the above argument holds.

I see. But on the standard Euclidean space with Euclidean metric, it is true? What is the most general metric space for which this is true?

BiP
 
Yes. Let ##A\subset ℝ^n##, and let ##x\in A## be an isolated point of A. By definition of isolated point, there is some ##r>0## s.t. ##B(x,r)\cap A = \{x\}##. Given any ##ε>0##, ##x\in B(x,ε)\Rightarrow B(x,ε)\cap A≠∅##. Moreover, ##B(x,r)\cap A = \{x\}\Rightarrow x+(\frac{1}{2}min\{ε,r\}, 0,..., 0) \in A^c\Rightarrow B(x,ε)\cap A^c≠∅##. We've shown that ##B(x,ε)\cap A≠∅## and ##B(x,ε)\cap A^c≠∅##, by definition this shows that ##x## is a boundary point of A. Thus any isolated point of A is a boundary point of A.

This property holds in a metric space if and only if the metric space does not have any isolated points to begin with. A topological space as a whole does not have any boundary points, so the condition clearly fails if we have an isolated point. Conversely, if we have a metric space ##X## s.t. there is a subset ##A\subset X## and a point ##x\in A## which is an isolated point but not a boundary point, then we can show that x must be an isolated point of ##X## (sketch: x isolated in A => no points of A are nearby, x not a boundary pt. of A=> no points of A^c are nearby, hence no points of X are nearby).

The other common way to define the boundary of A is to let it be the points in the closure of A that are not in the interior of A, where the closure is defined as the intersection of all closed sets containing A, and the interior is defined as the union of all open sets contained in A. Starting with the definition of boundary that you have been using, you can alternatively define the interior of A to be the set A with boundary points removed. There are other ways to define these concepts, but they all end up being equivalent in the end.
 

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