Isomorphism Question: Struggling with Engineering Maths - Need Help!

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter havnek
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Isomorphism
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding isomorphism in the context of an engineering mathematics exam question. Participants explore methods for identifying and proving isomorphism, particularly through geometric and labeling approaches. The scope includes conceptual clarification and mathematical reasoning related to isomorphism in a pentagram structure.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • A participant expresses difficulty in finding a conclusive method for spotting or proving isomorphism in their exam question.
  • Another participant suggests visualizing the problem in three dimensions and aligning vectors as a potential approach.
  • A participant shares a specific function that demonstrates an isomorphism from the pentagram to itself, indicating that starting from any point allows for correct construction.
  • There is a request for further elaboration on the isomorphism explanation, noting that while outer and inner points appear to be the same, clarity is needed on the labeling process.
  • A participant reflects on their initial labeling mistake and realizes that tracing routes from labeled vertices can lead to understanding isomorphism, expressing confidence in their ability to tackle similar exam questions in the future.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on a definitive method for proving isomorphism, and there are varying levels of understanding and approaches discussed. Some participants agree on the labeling strategy while others seek clarification.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the lack of detailed information in the exam question and the potential for varying interpretations of isomorphism based on different labeling methods.

Who May Find This Useful

Students studying engineering mathematics, particularly those interested in isomorphism and geometric representations in their coursework.

havnek
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
Hi everyone. I am new to these forums. I do Computer System Engineering at Brunel university in London. I did Maths and Physics at A-level but I'm struggling with some of the maths in my Engineering Maths module. Could someone please help me with the exam question I have attached with this post. I have searched high and low on the internet for advice or an algorithm on spotting/proving isomorphism but have failed to find a conclusive method. Any help at all would be really helpful, thanks!
 

Attachments

  • isomorphism.JPG
    isomorphism.JPG
    20.1 KB · Views: 497
Physics news on Phys.org
Think of them in 3 dimensions and rotate them. Look for the vectors to line up.
 
I haven't the foggiest; that is literally how the question appears in my past exam paper. There is no further information! :(
 
Notice that the function

f(1) = 6
f(2) = 8
f(3) = 10
f(4) = 7
f(5) = 9
f(6) = 3
f(7) = 5
f(8) = 2
f(9) = 4
f(10) = 1

is a isomorphism from the pentagram into it self, that is all points are the same, if you just start at some point and start to construct it you can't go wrong. So just pick a point and begin.

I have made the labeling for you, if you can't construct it yourself, but try yourself first it's not so hard.
 

Attachments

  • picture.JPG
    picture.JPG
    13.4 KB · Views: 408
thank you so much that is a great help!
 
No problem. Of cause

"is a isomorphism from the pentagram into it self, that is all points are the same, if you just start at some point and start to construct it you can't go wrong"

need some elaboration, I've only shown that the outer points are the same as the inner point, but it seem pretty obvious that all outer points are the same, and that all inner points are the same... right?
 
yes, but that was my problem. I was starting by labelling all my outer vertices in a clockwise order the same as the pentagon, ie 1 2 3 4 5, where as in fact (in ur example solution) it goes 1 2 3 9 6. I realize the error i was making - Once you label the first few outer vertices, trace their routes the same as the pentagon and you will find they are isomorphic. I know my exam question will not be any harder than this question so I think with my current understanding I should be fine. Thanks again.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 32 ·
2
Replies
32
Views
4K
  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
4K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
Replies
23
Views
3K