John Edwards a fake or the real deal?

[pallidin]

Well, my own 2-cents worth:

I take all claims of psychics or paranormal subject matters with skepticism.
Yet, I am open to the possibility of such issues being real in some cases.

There are many documented cases of fraud, but zero scientifically documented cases of authenticity(that I know of)
Still, there are from time-to-time, reports from what appears to be upstanding, sober individuals witnessing a psychic reading or paranormal event having no "apparent" natural explanation.
So, I stay open on the subject.

 

[JaredJames]

Still, there are from time-to-time, reports from what appears to be upstanding, sober individuals witnessing a psychic reading or paranormal event having no "apparent" natural explanation.

Do you have examples of these events to show us?

 

[sophiecentaur]

@ Palladin: How many of these examples which are not obviously fraudulent were repeatable on demand? Only that could constitute a serious scientific proof. And sobriety and upstandingness do not imply 100% reliability in a single unblind test.

If we had to treat every unlikely model as a possibility then where would that take us? It strikes me that, as history and Science have progressed, the only direction things have gone is towards the decreasing likeliness of this paranormal stuff being real. In the same way that Homeopaths keep saying that "more studies are needed", the proponents of the paranormal keep wanting "best of three" followed by "best of five" followed by "best of seven" because they just don't want to lose the game.
The balance of probabilities just falls further and further against the magic spells merchants. We just don't need any of it.

 

[pallidin]

Do you have examples of these events to show us?

Sure, just Google "paranormal events and law enforcement" or something similar.

 

[JaredJames]

Sure, just Google "paranormal events and law enforcement" or something similar.

Googled "paranormal events and law enforcement" and not one relevant result came up on the first page.

Perhaps you could provide some links for us to back up your assertion that some are unexplainable.

 

[pallidin]

And sobriety and upstandingness do not imply 100% reliability in a single unblind test.
.

Indeed, and it never will.
But, it does offer legitimacy for further investigation/inquiry.

 

[JaredJames]

I'd also point you here:

http://www.ukskeptics.com/article.php?dir=articles&article=police_and_psychics.php

DEVON AND CORNWALL CONSTABULARY
Mon, 20 Feb 2006 23:28
Devon & Cornwall Constabulary do not use the "services" of psychics and any persons offering such services are routinely declined.

SURREY POLICE
Tue, 21 Feb 2006 07:52
We do not/have not used this method.
Jonathan Edwards, HQ Registry

CITY OF LONDON POLICE
Tue, 21 Feb 2006 10:11
Dear Sir or Madam, for your information, psychics have never been used by the City of London Police to my knowledge.
Kieron Sharp, Detective Chief Superintendent

And so on.

The police do not use psychics (at least in the UK).

 

[pallidin]

Googled "paranormal events and law enforcement" and not one relevant result came up on the first page.

Perhaps you could provide some links for us to back up your assertion that some are unexplainable.

Yes, I like the way you think.
Please allow me a little time to do this.
The Internet is so convoluted now. Should be able to find them though...

 

[gnurf]

The police do not use psychics (at least in the UK).

Maybe they read this: http://www.csufresno.edu/physics/rhall/jref/tam4p/10_BR_tam4.pdf" (pdf)

 

[pallidin]

http://www.paperbackswap.com/Hidden-Files-Law-Sue-Kovach/book/0809231212/

One source.

 

[FlexGunship]

If J.E. also makes a lot of money, he is also an exploiter of needy persons. But I have to ask whether he is any worse than a very highly paid Cosmetic Surgeon in that respect?

Fundamental difference, the cosmetic surgeon neither lied about the methods, nor about the end result.

 

[pallidin]

Granted, the subject of the paranormal is of considerable debate.

 

[FlexGunship]

Still, there are from time-to-time, reports from what appears to be upstanding, sober individuals witnessing a psychic reading or paranormal event having no "apparent" natural explanation.
So, I stay open on the subject.

I believe you are referring to the "remote viewers" sometimes reported to be used by "law enforcement".

I think you will find that the strongest opponents of these reports are "law enforcement." And the strongest proponents of these reports are "remote viewers."

 

[pallidin]

And for me to exclaim that paranormal phenomenon does not exist is simply irresponsible.
After all, quantum weirdness exists.

 

[JaredJames]

As per myself, I don't have to claim it doesn't exist.

I simply dismiss the notion of psychic ability until evidence of its existence comes to light.

There is a difference. I am not claiming anything.

 

[DaveC426913]

I simply dismiss the notion of psychic ability until evidence of its existence comes to light.

Alas, it means you can only react to new discoveries, you won't be leading them.

 

[JaredJames]

Alas, it means you can only react to new discoveries, you won't be leading them.

Sadly it's true.

I'm an engineer. Not really in the "discovering things" field.

I take what we've got and build on it.

 

[Evo]

Alas, it means you can only react to new discoveries, you won't be leading them.

Not at all. Not being distracted by what you consider nonsense means you can focus more on what matters. This can place you way ahead of the pack in discoveries. While others are wondering if dead people talk, you're doing something important with your life.

 

[JaredJames]

Not at all. Not being distracted by what you consider nonsense means you can focus more on what matters. This can place you way ahead of the pack in discoveries. While others are wondering if dead people talk, you're doing something important with your life.

 

[Chronos]

I was not aware of this. Do you have some reference where he admits he's just faking? Edwards makes a living by having people believe he really can talk to the dead. He's a con artist.

John Edwards has neither admitted he is a fake, nor explicitly claimed amazing 'abilities'. He has claimed he is an entertainer. I would characterize him as a mentalist - not unlike the 'Amazing Kreskin'. He has a knack for milking information from people. For some unflattering review see:
http://www.re-quest.net/entertainment/movies-and-tv/tv/john-edward/
http://www.dunamai.com/articles/pastors_desk/crossing-over.htm

 

[FlexGunship]

And for me to exclaim that paranormal phenomenon does not exist is simply irresponsible.
After all, quantum weirdness exists.

Again two very different things. "The paranormal" has been added to the domain of human knowledge in a very different manner than "quantum weirdness." Furthermore, "quantum weirdness" is both experimentally repeatable with incredible precision and offers real explanatory models for reality as we understand it.

If you could build a computer out of ghosts or design new materials based on your knowledge of demon horns, then I'm 100% sure you would receieve a considerable amount of personal attention from the scientific community.

"See... the demon horn has an semi-crystalline structure of alternating fire and brimstone atoms. Ions suspended in the lattice are possesed by the unholy Lord of Darkness and Pain giving it an amazingly high sheer strength."

"Woah, what are you doing all of these simulations on?"

"Oh, this is my ghost computer. I stabbed it in the CPU while it was performing a long calculation so it came back as a ghost because it 'had unfinished business.' Fortunately, it generates its own cold drafts which means it runs cooler. The big problem is that sometimes it emits strong electromagnetic fields, so my ghost hard drive is full of corrupted sectors."

 

[FlexGunship]

I'd also like to add to the discussion that the group of individuals that John Edwards speaks to most often are grief-stricken folks looking for emotional solice.

He doesn't help historians unravel mysteries of long unsolved military skirmishes (something that would be equally unimpressive since the results aren't verifiable).

 

[Chronos]

I would not rule out the possibility some of the 'audience' may on the payroll.

 

[FlexGunship]

I would not rule out the possibility some of the 'audience' may on the payroll.

Some of John Edwards' peers do this, but I've never heard it confirmed about Edwards himself. Specifically, Dowd and Flynn would put people in the line leading INTO the building to start conversations. They would ask questions like "who are you here to talk to?" and "I'd like to hear from my dead father, how about you?" The responses would be recorded and they would be ushered into a specific area. Flynn would review a few index cards with notes like: "Alan, died of black lung, section 4" and "Marianne, car accident, section 1."

With just a tiny bit of information she seemed to perform miracles.

 

[DaveC426913]

He doesn't help historians unravel mysteries of long unsolved military skirmishes.

What an awesome application though. Never thought of that.

 

[sophiecentaur]

Fundamental difference, the cosmetic surgeon neither lied about the methods, nor about the end result.

Some of them still make a lot of money out of many people who don't need bigger of 'better' bits but think that, by paying a lot of money they can be made happy.
I am, of course, totally in favour of plastic surgery when there is no element of exploitation involved. It can be a life saver. But I only used that as another example of a way of fleecing people in exchange for some phoney happiness.

 

[FlexGunship]

What an awesome application though. Never thought of that.

I sense a spin off!

He's a zany psychic that talks to the dead! And he's a political cartographer and military historian of the late Bronze age!"

Yeah, I'm already bored with the idea.

 

[Evo]

I'd pay to talk to ancient dead people. Just think of all of the New Age suckers that would give anything to talk to the Druids that they pretend to be.

 

[PolarisNorth]

This sounds completely prejudice and bias of me but I've always had the idea that every person that tries to make money especially on television using their "psychic" abilities for "good" are actually frauds. If they really possessed such a gift and wanted to do good with it, then they shouldn't be using their talent to rake in money and make themselves into celebrities. Even if they really did have such gifts, I still wouldn't trust them because it is obvious their intentions are not for the good of mankind.

 

[JaredJames]

I don't think the whole "if you really had the power you wouldn't use it to make money" stance works. It may apply to some people, but there'd be equally as many people willing to use it for their own benefit. So it's not a good way to judge whether or not someone may/may not be genuine.