John Edwards a fake or the real deal?

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  • #71
FlexGunship
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If J.E. also makes a lot of money, he is also an exploiter of needy persons. But I have to ask whether he is any worse than a very highly paid Cosmetic Surgeon in that respect?

Fundamental difference, the cosmetic surgeon neither lied about the methods, nor about the end result.
 
  • #72
pallidin
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Granted, the subject of the paranormal is of considerable debate.
 
  • #73
FlexGunship
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Still, there are from time-to-time, reports from what appears to be upstanding, sober individuals witnessing a psychic reading or paranormal event having no "apparent" natural explanation.
So, I stay open on the subject.

I believe you are referring to the "remote viewers" sometimes reported to be used by "law enforcement".

I think you will find that the strongest opponents of these reports are "law enforcement." And the strongest proponents of these reports are "remote viewers."
 
  • #74
pallidin
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And for me to exclaim that paranormal phenomenon does not exist is simply irresponsible.
After all, quantum weirdness exists.
 
  • #75
JaredJames
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As per myself, I don't have to claim it doesn't exist.

I simply dismiss the notion of psychic ability until evidence of its existence comes to light.

There is a difference. I am not claiming anything.
 
  • #76
DaveC426913
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I simply dismiss the notion of psychic ability until evidence of its existence comes to light.
Alas, it means you can only react to new discoveries, you won't be leading them.
 
  • #77
JaredJames
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Alas, it means you can only react to new discoveries, you won't be leading them.

Sadly it's true.

I'm an engineer. Not really in the "discovering things" field.

I take what we've got and build on it.
 
  • #78
Evo
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Alas, it means you can only react to new discoveries, you won't be leading them.
Not at all. Not being distracted by what you consider nonsense means you can focus more on what matters. This can place you way ahead of the pack in discoveries. While others are wondering if dead people talk, you're doing something important with your life.
 
  • #79
JaredJames
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Not at all. Not being distracted by what you consider nonsense means you can focus more on what matters. This can place you way ahead of the pack in discoveries. While others are wondering if dead people talk, you're doing something important with your life.

:biggrin: :cool:
 
  • #80
Chronos
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I was not aware of this. Do you have some reference where he admits he's just faking? Edwards makes a living by having people believe he really can talk to the dead. He's a con artist.
John Edwards has neither admitted he is a fake, nor explicitly claimed amazing 'abilities'. He has claimed he is an entertainer. I would characterize him as a mentalist - not unlike the 'Amazing Kreskin'. He has a knack for milking information from people. For some unflattering review see:
http://www.re-quest.net/entertainment/movies-and-tv/tv/john-edward/
http://www.dunamai.com/articles/pastors_desk/crossing-over.htm
 
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  • #81
FlexGunship
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And for me to exclaim that paranormal phenomenon does not exist is simply irresponsible.
After all, quantum weirdness exists.

Again two very different things. "The paranormal" has been added to the domain of human knowledge in a very different manner than "quantum weirdness." Furthermore, "quantum weirdness" is both experimentally repeatable with incredible precision and offers real explanatory models for reality as we understand it.

If you could build a computer out of ghosts or design new materials based on your knowledge of demon horns, then I'm 100% sure you would receieve a considerable amount of personal attention from the scientific community.

"See... the demon horn has an semi-crystalline structure of alternating fire and brimstone atoms. Ions suspended in the lattice are possesed by the unholy Lord of Darkness and Pain giving it an amazingly high sheer strength."

"Woah, what are you doing all of these simulations on?"

"Oh, this is my ghost computer. I stabbed it in the CPU while it was performing a long calculation so it came back as a ghost because it 'had unfinished business.' Fortunately, it generates its own cold drafts which means it runs cooler. The big problem is that sometimes it emits strong electromagnetic fields, so my ghost hard drive is full of corrupted sectors.
"
 
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  • #82
FlexGunship
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I'd also like to add to the discussion that the group of individuals that John Edwards speaks to most often are grief-stricken folks looking for emotional solice.

He doesn't help historians unravel mysteries of long unsolved military skirmishes (something that would be equally unimpressive since the results aren't verifiable).
 
  • #83
Chronos
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I would not rule out the possibility some of the 'audience' may on the payroll.
 
  • #84
FlexGunship
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I would not rule out the possibility some of the 'audience' may on the payroll.

Some of John Edwards' peers do this, but I've never heard it confirmed about Edwards himself. Specifically, Dowd and Flynn would put people in the line leading INTO the building to start conversations. They would ask questions like "who are you here to talk to?" and "I'd like to hear from my dead father, how about you?" The responses would be recorded and they would be ushered into a specific area. Flynn would review a few index cards with notes like: "Alan, died of black lung, section 4" and "Marianne, car accident, section 1."

With just a tiny bit of information she seemed to perform miracles.
 
  • #85
DaveC426913
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He doesn't help historians unravel mysteries of long unsolved military skirmishes.
What an awesome application though. Never thought of that.
 
  • #86
sophiecentaur
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Fundamental difference, the cosmetic surgeon neither lied about the methods, nor about the end result.

Some of them still make a lot of money out of many people who don't need bigger of 'better' bits but think that, by paying a lot of money they can be made happy.
I am, of course, totally in favour of plastic surgery when there is no element of exploitation involved. It can be a life saver. But I only used that as another example of a way of fleecing people in exchange for some phoney happiness.
 
  • #87
FlexGunship
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What an awesome application though. Never thought of that.

I sense a spin off!

He's a zany psychic that talks to the dead! And he's a political cartographer and military historian of the late Bronze age!"

Yeah, I'm already bored with the idea.
 
  • #88
Evo
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I'd pay to talk to ancient dead people. Just think of all of the New Age suckers that would give anything to talk to the Druids that they pretend to be.
 
  • #89
PolarisNorth
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This sounds completely prejudice and bias of me but I've always had the idea that every person that tries to make money especially on television using their "psychic" abilities for "good" are actually frauds. If they really possessed such a gift and wanted to do good with it, then they shouldn't be using their talent to rake in money and make themselves into celebrities. Even if they really did have such gifts, I still wouldn't trust them because it is obvious their intentions are not for the good of mankind.
 
  • #90
JaredJames
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I don't think the whole "if you really had the power you wouldn't use it to make money" stance works. It may apply to some people, but there'd be equally as many people willing to use it for their own benefit. So it's not a good way to judge whether or not someone may/may not be genuine.
 
  • #91
Evo
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I used to watch Crossing Over, I think Edward's is the best cold reader I've seen, it's an art. That weirdo that wiggles a pen over a pad of paper is the worst, I don't get why he's famous.
 
  • #92
JaredJames
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Ha, funny you should bring up 'ghost writing'.

Just watched a comedy show and they had a video of a psychic doing it. She was saying "I don't know what the pen is doing, I have no control." She was doing some drawing about the guy opposite her.

When they revealed it, she had drawn a penis outline (hair and all). Considering 'she didn't know what she was doing', it was a faily good kn*b drawing - would make teenage graffiti artists proud!
 
  • #93
FlexGunship
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I used to watch Crossing Over, I think Edward's is the best cold reader I've seen, it's an art. That weirdo that wiggles a pen over a pad of paper is the worst, I don't get why he's famous.

If you were to look at the "taping times" of Crossing Over; they are 8 hour sessions. If you get to go for an episode, you sit for 8 hours (or maybe there were two 4-hour sessions).

Either way, it's easy to see some material didn't make it into the final show.
 
  • #94
Evo
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If you were to look at the "taping times" of Crossing Over; they are 8 hour sessions. If you get to go for an episode, you sit for 8 hours (or maybe there were two 4-hour sessions).

Either way, it's easy to see some material didn't make it into the final show.
I want to be clear, I don't think he's talking to the dead, just that he's very good as a cold reader entertainer.
 
  • #95
ecsspace
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The most remarkable aspect of Edward's talents are the depths to which he will stoop. Should his career of humbuggery fall through, he might do well as a monitor of the society naked mole rats, familiar as he is with his own practiced model (he probably works on it in the mirror) of subterranean rodent behaviour.
There is the concern that the naked mole rats might protest, wondering why we would send someone who clearly belongs in deeper darker places than only underground among the esteemed company of hideous and hairless vermin.
 
  • #96
nismaratwork
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I don't think the whole "if you really had the power you wouldn't use it to make money" stance works. It may apply to some people, but there'd be equally as many people willing to use it for their own benefit. So it's not a good way to judge whether or not someone may/may not be genuine.

I think most would go the Iron Man route: try to do some good... at a profit.
 
  • #97
JaredJames
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I think most would go the Iron Man route: try to do some good... at a profit.

That's the sort of thing I was thinking. I don't think it would take much for most people to realize the value of their gift.
 
  • #98
sophiecentaur
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You can't really say how someone who was genuinely 'like that' would act. It could go either way. But anyone who had that sort of ability, genuinely, would, amongst all their obvious abilities, also have the very good sense to keep it hidden and establish other plausible reasons for having their success / money / fast cars etc.. Otherwise they would be subject to the ultimate in exploitation from others.
Did you see Xmen? It would be like that.
 
  • #99
JaredJames
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If anyone has seen Jumper, that's the sort of thing I picture happening.

Someone has the gift, they use it to their advantage but hide it from others.

I think anyone would realize what too much attention would cause, the government would show an interest to say the least.#

(Unless you're Hancock, in which case you got nothing to lose by showing it. Not like anyone could do anything about it / with it.)
 
  • #100
DaveC426913
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You can't really say how someone who was genuinely 'like that' would act. It could go either way. But anyone who had that sort of ability, genuinely, would, amongst all their obvious abilities, also have the very good sense to keep it hidden and establish other plausible reasons for having their success / money / fast cars etc.. Otherwise they would be subject to the ultimate in exploitation from others.
Did you see Xmen? It would be like that.

Why would they want to be hidden from exploitation (or accurately, is it exploitation if you want it)? Do talented musicians hide their abilities so they won't be exploited?

You were right the first time. It comes down to who they genuinely are. If they have the motivation to be rich and have celebrity, then they will use their ability; if they prefer some other, unrelated career path, then making this public would definitely interfere.
 
  • #101
JaredJames
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Well it depends what you can do.

I'm sure the government would be very interested in someone with psychic ability, especially with their track record in this area.

Attracting too much attention could mean you end up on some military base for the rest of your life.
 
  • #102
sophiecentaur
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As in 'Minority Report'?
There's a film for every nutty idea, I think.
 
  • #103
JaredJames
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Well as I understand it they have previously spent money on 'investigating' various paranormal / psychic ability. So it wouldn't be hard to believe they'd get you on side one way or another (or at least try it).
 

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