Jump probability of a random walker

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of a Markovian homogeneous random walk, specifically focusing on the transition probabilities defined by a transition matrix. Participants explore various expressions for calculating probabilities related to the walker's position at different time steps, including conditional probabilities and the implications of certain transitions.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents formulas for transition probabilities and questions their correctness, particularly regarding the expression for ##P[X(t) \neq j | X(t-1) \neq j]##.
  • Another participant challenges the second expression, arguing that the events involved are not disjoint and suggests a different approach to express the probabilities.
  • Some participants propose writing the probabilities in terms of disjoint events to clarify the calculations.
  • There is a suggestion to express the probability as a double sum, with a focus on ensuring that the resulting summation does not exceed 1.
  • Participants discuss the implications of the transition matrix properties, specifically that the sum of probabilities for transitions from any state equals 1.
  • There is a back-and-forth regarding the correct formulation of conditional probabilities and the necessity of dividing by the total probability of the conditioning events.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the correctness of certain probability expressions, particularly regarding the second expression and the handling of conditional probabilities. The discussion remains unresolved as participants continue to refine their arguments and explore different formulations.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the importance of disjoint events in probability calculations and the implications of the transition matrix properties, but there are unresolved mathematical steps and assumptions regarding the summation of probabilities.

grquanti
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Hello everybody.
I have a Markowian homogeneous random walk. Given the transition matrix of the chain, I know that

##P[ X(t) = i | X(t-1) = j ] ≡ P_{j→i}=T_{ij}##

where ##T## is the transition matrix and ##X(t)## is the position of the walker at time ##t##.
Given this formula, I think the following two formulas hold:

##P[ X(t) ≠ j | X(t-1) = i ] = ∑_{k≠j} P_{i→k} = ∑_{k≠j} T_{ki}##

and

##P[X(t) = j | X(t-1) ≠ j ] = ∑_{i≠j} P_{i→j} P_{i}(t-1) = ∑_{i≠j} T_{ji} P_{i}(t-1)##

First of all: it is right?
However the most importat question is: what can I say about

##P[X(t) ≠ j | X(t-1) ≠ j ]## ?

I think my question is quite general, however I let you note that: in my particular case, in a single time step the walker can:
  • do a step of length 1 in the positive direction
  • do a step of length 1 in the negative direction
  • stay motionless (don't go anywhere, nor the negative nor the positive direction. It's 0-lenght step)
thanks.
 
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grquanti said:
First of all: it is right?
That second one is not correct.
Taking a sum works for the first case because the events ##X(t)=k## for ##k\neq j## are disjoint for different values of ##k##, so we can just add the probabilities. In the second case it is the conditional event ##X(t-1)\neq j## that has multiple parts and there is no theorem we can use about adding probabilities there.

To get a handle on what you need to do, try to write ##P[A\ |\ B\cup C]## in terms of ##P[A|B],P[ B ],P[A|C]## and ##P[C]## where ##B## and ##C## are disjoint events. You could then think of ##A## as the event ##X(t)=j## and ##B## and ##C## as the events ##X(t-1)=j-1,\ X(t-1)=j+1##.
 
@andrewkirk: I don't understand the problem you have with the second expression. The initial probabilities are taken into account.
1->3 and 2->3 are disjoint events, for example, and you can sum their probabilities.

grquanti said:
However the most importat question is: what can I say about

##P[X(t) ≠ j | X(t-1) ≠ j ]## ?
Write down a 3x3 matrix (or larger) for T and see which transitions contribute. You can express it as double sum, but you can find a more compact expression.
 
mfb said:
I don't understand the problem you have with the second expression. The initial probabilities are taken into account.
1->3 and 2->3 are disjoint events, for example, and you can sum their probabilities.
Certainly it is true that ##X(t-1)=1\wedge X(t)=3## and ##X(t-1)=2\wedge X(t)=3## are disjoint events. But the sum of their probabilities is ##Pr(X(t)=3\wedge (X(t-1)\in\{1,2\})\ )## not ##Pr(X(t)=3\ |\ X(t-1)\in\{1,2\}\ )##. To get the latter we need to divide by ##Pr(X(t-1)\in\{1,2\})##.
 
mfb said:
You can express it as double sum, but you can find a more compact expression.
I think you are suggesting me this:

##P[ X(t) ≠ j | X(t-1) ≠ j ] = ∑_{i≠j}^{k≠j} P_{i→k}P_{i}(t) = ∑_{i≠j}^{k≠j} T_{ki}P_{i}(t)##

It seems reasonable to me, but am I ensured that this summation in not greater than 1?

andrewkirk said:
try to write ##P[A\ |\ B\cup C]## in terms of ##P[A|B],P[ B ],P[A|C]## and ##P[C]## where ##B## and ##C## are disjoint events.

I would say

##P( A | B ∪ C ) = \frac{P(A | B )P(B) + P( A | C )P(C)}{P(B) + P(C)}##

Is it right?
 
grquanti said:
I would say

##P( A | B ∪ C ) = \frac{P(A | B )P(B) + P( A | C )P(C)}{P(B) + P(C)}##

Is it right?
Yes.

Now in what you've done above you have the numerator correct, but you have not divided by the denominator, as in this example you just did.
The denominator to divide by is
$$\sum_{k\neq j}P_k(t-1)$$
 
@andrewkirk: Ah you are right, I missed the part about the conditional probability.
grquanti said:
It seems reasonable to me, but am I ensured that this summation in not greater than 1?
You know something about sums of Tij.
 
mfb said:
You know something about sums of Tij.

Yes, I know that

##∑_i T_{ij}=1 ∀ j##

but I have to do (at least, I think I have to do)

##∑_{i≠j}^{k≠j} T_{ki}P_i##

For sure, the summation over a single index is not greater than one, but here I have to do the summation over two index...
 
You can write it as explicit double sum, then it is easier to see which summation you can do first (as inequality if you just want to compare to 1). Afterwards you can use a similar equation for Pi to get rid of the remaining sum.
 
  • #10
Yes, you mean

##∑_{i≠j}^{k≠j} T_{ki}P_i = ∑_{i≠j} P_i ∑_{k≠j}T_{ki} ≤ ∑_{i}P_i = 1 ##

Thank you!
 
  • #11
$$∑_{i≠j}^{k≠j} T_{ki}P_i = ∑_{i≠j} P_i ∑_{k≠j}T_{ki} ≤ ∑_{i\neq j}P_i \leq 1$$
 
  • #12
##∑_{i≠j}^{k≠j}T_{ki}P_i = ∑_{i≠j}P_i∑_{k≠j}T_{ki} ≤ ∑_{i≠j}P_i ≤ ∑_i P_i = 1##
 

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