News Karl Rove: The Republican Mastermind

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The discussion centers around a PBS program airing at 9:00 PM PST, focusing on Karl Rove's life and career as a political strategist, particularly his role in the Republican resurgence and the controversial tactics he employed. Participants express mixed views on Rove, acknowledging his strategic acumen while criticizing the negative aspects of his political methods, such as dirty campaigning exemplified by the Swiftboat Veterans for Truth. The conversation touches on Rove's ambitions for Republican dominance in U.S. politics, raising concerns about the implications of a one-party state and the erosion of democratic principles. Participants also discuss Rove's involvement in the CIA leak case concerning Valerie Plame, highlighting the contradictions in White House statements regarding his role. The thread reveals deep divisions in political opinions, with some labeling Rove's tactics as un-American and detrimental to constitutional values, while others defend his influence and strategic prowess. The dialogue reflects broader anxieties about the state of American politics and the potential for partisan manipulation of democratic processes.
  • #51
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #52
SOS2008 said:
:smile: Made in China no doubt?
I may be able to get bootleg then!?

Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum ... it's a pirates life for me.
 
  • #53
The Smoking Man said:
I may be able to get bootleg then!?

Yo ho ho and a bottle of rum ... it's a pirates life for me.
Ah the wonders of capitalism. :rolleyes:

I saw this, and though I don't vouch for this blogger website, the message contains valid information:
Sunday, July 17, 2005
Rovian Republicanism

Rove continues to memorize the hard core Republicans as he plays the cards they want to see. In typical Rovian fashion, he promotes slander on non-warmongers by publicly announcing that "Liberals saw the savagery of the 9/11 attacks and wanted to prepare indictments and offer therapy and understanding for our attackers." In reality every Senator of this land voted to go to war on lies told to America by Rovian Republicans.

Rove is part of the rabid and radical conservative movement designed to tear this country apart rather than bind us together in the time of Terror. His followers, who call themselves Conservative Republicans, do not represent the traditional Conservative Republican of yesterday. Rovians represent a radical faction designed to push the traditional beliefs just a little further each time until the whole Republican party thinks it’s ok to slander and destroy other Americans.

Rovian dogma shows us that if you keep a country in a state of panic, fear, or hatred, you can compromise the values of the people of that state without being noticed. You can scare journalists into keeping their mouths shut. You can give away billions to your favorite corporations while the people are not looking. You can steal oil from another county. You can slander, oppress, and exterminate a race of people you don’t like.

The Rovian Republicans are in danger of ripping up the very fabric of America and American traditional values. If this movement is allowed to continue, it will turn American into a kill or be killed state with no tolerance anywhere. The sleeping giant does not feel it yet when he turns on his big-screen television, but by the time he notices it will be too late.
http://republicanwhore.com/2005/07/rovian-republicanism.html
 
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  • #54
Sos2008

"Rovian dogma shows us that if you keep a country in a state of panic, fear, or hatred, you can compromise the values of the people of that state without being noticed. You can scare journalists into keeping their mouths shut."

I seem to remember Adolph Hitlers minister of propoganda saying something similar: "Convince the people that they have an enemy and they will follow you without question" (probably not verbatim but close).
 
  • #55
SOS2008 said:
Ah the wonders of capitalism. :rolleyes:

I saw this, and though I don't vouch for this blogger website, the message contains valid information:
http://republicanwhore.com/2005/07/rovian-republicanism.html
'ja think they might be biased

LOL
 
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  • #56
edward said:
"Rovian dogma shows us that if you keep a country in a state of panic, fear, or hatred, you can compromise the values of the people of that state without being noticed. You can scare journalists into keeping their mouths shut."

I seem to remember Adolph Hitlers minister of propoganda saying something similar: "Convince the people that they have an enemy and they will follow you without question" (probably not verbatim but close).
Oh the web we weave, when at first we try to deceive... There is so much crap hitting the fan it's becoming a friggin' musical chairs routine.
 
  • #57
Sunday, July 17, 2005
Rovian Republicanism

Rove continues to memorize the hard core Republicans as he plays the cards they want to see. In typical Rovian fashion, he promotes slander on non-warmongers by publicly announcing that "Liberals saw the savagery of the 9/11 attacks and wanted to prepare indictments and offer therapy and understanding for our attackers." In reality every Senator of this land voted to go to war on lies told to America by Rovian Republicans.

Rove is part of the rabid and radical conservative movement designed to tear this country apart rather than bind us together in the time of Terror. His followers, who call themselves Conservative Republicans, do not represent the traditional Conservative Republican of yesterday. Rovians represent a radical faction designed to push the traditional beliefs just a little further each time until the whole Republican party thinks it’s ok to slander and destroy other Americans.

Rovian dogma shows us that if you keep a country in a state of panic, fear, or hatred, you can compromise the values of the people of that state without being noticed. You can scare journalists into keeping their mouths shut. You can give away billions to your favorite corporations while the people are not looking. You can steal oil from another county. You can slander, oppress, and exterminate a race of people you don’t like.

The Rovian Republicans are in danger of ripping up the very fabric of America and American traditional values. If this movement is allowed to continue, it will turn American into a kill or be killed state with no tolerance anywhere. The sleeping giant does not feel it yet when he turns on his big-screen television, but by the time he notices it will be too late.

This article is wrong because it completely misses the point regarding Rove. He has no 'followers'. He's more like an amplifier than a source. His business is running campaigns and ideology figures very little in his motivations. He sabotaged Texas religious conservatives when they posed an obstacle to Bush's run for governor - he mobilized the nation's religious conservatives when he needed their support to beat Kerry in 2004.

He's very good at what he does and more amoral than immoral - anything goes as long as it contributes to success. But the responsibility for the policies of his candidates still reside with his candidates, not Rove.
 
  • #58
"Memo central to probe of leak spelled out information’s status"
Washington Post
Updated: 12:21 a.m. ET July 21, 2005

A classified State Department memorandum central to a federal leak investigation contained information about CIA officer Valerie Plame in a paragraph marked "(S)" for secret, a clear indication that any Bush administration official who read it should have been aware the information was classified, according to current and former government officials.
---------
Three key questions
The memo may be important to answering three central questions in the Plame case: Who in the Bush administration knew about Plame's CIA role? Did they know the agency was trying to protect her identity? And, who leaked it to the media?

Almost all of the memo is devoted to describing why State Department intelligence experts did not believe claims that Saddam Hussein had in the recent past sought to purchase uranium from Niger. Only two sentences in the seven-sentence paragraph mention Wilson's wife.

The memo was delivered to Secretary of State Colin L. Powell on July 7, 2003, as he headed to Africa for a trip with President Bush aboard Air Force One. Plame was unmasked in a syndicated column by Robert D. Novak seven days later.[/QUOTE]http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8635385/

The timing is very suspect--not only as this relates to the leak, but also the speech Bush made later in which he made claims regarding the existence of uranium from Niger, obviously contrary to the memo.
 
  • #59
The Smoking Man said:
'ja think they might be biased

LOL
I was googling for information about mainstream media in the U.S., which led to media whores, which led to this site—with a title like that who could resist?
BobG said:
This article is wrong because it completely misses the point regarding Rove. He has no 'followers'. He's more like an amplifier than a source. His business is running campaigns and ideology figures very little in his motivations. He sabotaged Texas religious conservatives when they posed an obstacle to Bush's run for governor - he mobilized the nation's religious conservatives when he needed their support to beat Kerry in 2004.

He's very good at what he does and more amoral than immoral - anything goes as long as it contributes to success. But the responsibility for the policies of his candidates still reside with his candidates, not Rove.
You are correct that Bush has the following, and Rove is the wizard pulling levers behind the curtain. In regard to election strategy, Bush lost in his first attempt to run for congress. He lost because he was considered an Easterner (not a Texan), but most of all because he failed to appeal to the religious-right. Later when Bush ran for governor, it was made known that he was ‘born-again,’ and since then he has always concluded his speaking engagements with “God bless you.” This has continued with appeal to Hispanics, and of course making the issue of gay marriage #1 in the 2004 election. Aside from other election controversies (I can attest to this personally in 2004 in which my vote did not count), the use of propositions to ban gay marriage did wonders to get the fundamentalists to the polls (including in states where gay marriage was already banned via statutes). Aside from the narrow margins, Bush supporters wonder why many Americans don’t accept the election results as a mandate or even particularly legitimate.

There are so many examples, such as whether Bush was wearing an earpiece during the debates, the way they use Laura Bush, and you know someone is providing prompt reminders to Bush to stop scowling and smile – where would he be without Rove!?
 
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  • #60
New headlines:

"Root of the Rove controversy is the war in Iraq
U.S. justification for waging war on Saddam still haunts White House"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8562589/

And another about Rove and how it was easier to get into the Iraq war than getting out of the war. That the leak is related to lies about the war make Rove's defence weak.
 
  • #61
SOS2008 said:
"Root of the Rove controversy is the war in Iraq
*gasp* : NooO! It can't be! I TOTALLY didn't see that coming.
 
  • #62
Smurf said:
*gasp* : NooO! It can't be! I TOTALLY didn't see that coming.
You foreigners are so ahead of the curve--please teach Americans how to do that! :-p
 
  • #63
having to deal with this huge mass of political imbeciles anyone could be called "mastermind"
 
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  • #64
Informal Logic said:
"Memo central to probe of leak spelled out information’s status"
Washington Post
Updated: 12:21 a.m. ET July 21, 2005

A classified State Department memorandum central to a federal leak investigation contained information about CIA officer Valerie Plame in a paragraph marked "(S)" for secret, a clear indication that any Bush administration official who read it should have been aware the information was classified, according to current and former government officials.
---------
Three key questions
The memo may be important to answering three central questions in the Plame case: Who in the Bush administration knew about Plame's CIA role? Did they know the agency was trying to protect her identity? And, who leaked it to the media?

Almost all of the memo is devoted to describing why State Department intelligence experts did not believe claims that Saddam Hussein had in the recent past sought to purchase uranium from Niger. Only two sentences in the seven-sentence paragraph mention Wilson's wife.

The memo was delivered to Secretary of State Colin L. Powell on July 7, 2003, as he headed to Africa for a trip with President Bush aboard Air Force One. Plame was unmasked in a syndicated column by Robert D. Novak seven days later.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8635385/

The timing is very suspect--not only as this relates to the leak, but also the speech Bush made later in which he made claims regarding the existence of uranium from Niger, obviously contrary to the memo.
Good point about the timing, Informal Logic - it seems to provide firm evidence of deliberate lying to justify the invasion of Iraq (not that there isn't already evidence about this).

On the topic of the implications of Rove getting away scott free, a Reuters article of 22 July reported as follows:
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Bush's failure to take action against a top aide involved in the outing of a covert CIA operative sends "the wrong message" overseas, former U.S. intelligence officials said on Friday.

At a hearing sponsored by Democrats, the retired agents said U.S. intelligence gathering had been damaged by the leak of Valerie Plame's name two years ago after her husband, former diplomat Joseph Wilson, criticized the White House's justification for going to war in Iraq.
...
"What has suffered irreversible damage is the credibility of our case officers when they try to convince an overseas contact that their safety is of primary importance to us," Jim Marcinkowski, a former CIA case officer, said. [Own emphasis]

http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2005-07-22T202547Z_01_N2223899_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-BUSH-LEAK-DC.XML
And this at a time when conflicts are on the rise and the powers that be argue that there is more need than ever before for intel activity and are bringing all sorts of draconian legislation in that will severely impinge on civil liberties to 'combat terrorism' :rolleyes: I mean, how serious are they about 'combatting terrorism' if they don't care about the implications of revealing secret operatives' names?
 
  • #65
alexandra said:
On the topic of the implications of Rove getting away scott free, a Reuters article of 22 July reported as follows:And this at a time when conflicts are on the rise and the powers that be argue that there is more need than ever before for intel activity and are bringing all sorts of draconian legislation in that will severely impinge on civil liberties to 'combat terrorism' :rolleyes: I mean, how serious are they about 'combatting terrorism' if they don't care about the implications of revealing secret operatives' names?
It should be clear by now to all that this administration has only cared about it's own power, and has pursued it at any cost. In the summer before 9-11 the domestic scene was very worrisome--particularly the economy. Personally I believe Bush, et al, were absorbed with political strategy, and though they may not have realized the degree of destruction per the PDB, they may have even hoped for a distraction (after all, this is in keeping with Rove's MO). If it had not been for the 9-11 attacks and the fear mongering about the war on terror, I doubt Bush would have been reelected. So even if negligence can't be proven, the exploitation of the tragedy can, and this alone is despicable.
 

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