Keppler's third law and the speed of cellestial bodies.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on Kepler's third law and its implications for the velocity of celestial bodies in orbit around the sun. Participants explore the relationship between orbital radius, centripetal force, and velocity, touching on both theoretical and mathematical aspects of the law.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the velocity of an orbiting object is directly dependent on its average distance from the sun, suggesting that irregular velocities would contradict the existence of a constant.
  • Others argue that in an elliptical orbit, the velocity varies, being highest at perigee (closest approach) and lowest at apogee (farthest approach).
  • A participant presents a mathematical derivation showing that the centripetal force required for circular motion is equal to the gravitational force, leading to a formulation of Kepler's third law.
  • There is acknowledgment of the complexity involved in understanding these concepts, with participants expressing a desire for simpler explanations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the relationship between orbital radius and velocity, but there are varying interpretations regarding the implications of Kepler's third law and the specifics of orbital mechanics. The discussion remains unresolved in terms of fully clarifying these relationships.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations include the dependence on specific definitions of orbits (circular vs. elliptical) and the assumptions made in the mathematical derivations. Additionally, the discussion reflects varying levels of understanding among participants.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and enthusiasts interested in celestial mechanics, orbital dynamics, and the historical context of Kepler's laws as they relate to gravitational theory.

Nikitin
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Hi. Keppler's third law implicates that the velocity of an object orbiting around our sun is directly dependent on the object's average distance to the sun... Afterall, if the velocity of be more irregular, then no constant would exist.

I realize this probably has something to do with the average centripetal force provided by the gravity of the sun...

I was thinking that this is because the longer away an object is the bigger its orbit and thus the smaller the average centripetal force and thus one could assume that it is possible that the speed must be smaller as well? mass*(v^2)/r=centripetal force. But then again the radius r is also bigger if the orbit is bigger and that allows for a larger speed..

bah.

And:

The next sub-chapter of my physics book it is about Newton's work with gravity and using that jazz to prove keppler's laws.. So maybe I will find out eventually tho still I'd appreciate it if you people could make some simple explanations.
 
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The larger the radius, the lower the velocity must be in order to sustain an orbit. In an elliptical orbit the orbiting body moves faster as the distance between it and the larger body decreases, with a max velocity at its closest approach, perigee. After that it slows down until it reaches apogee, or farthest approach.
 
Nikitin said:
Hi. Keppler's third law implicates that the velocity of an object orbiting around our sun is directly dependent on the object's average distance to the sun... Afterall, if the velocity of be more irregular, then no constant would exist.

I realize this probably has something to do with the average centripetal force provided by the gravity of the sun...

I was thinking that this is because the longer away an object is the bigger its orbit and thus the smaller the average centripetal force and thus one could assume that it is possible that the speed must be smaller as well? mass*(v^2)/r=centripetal force. But then again the radius r is also bigger if the orbit is bigger and that allows for a larger speed..

bah.

In a simple case, consider a circular orbit where the centripetal force needed to maintain the circular path is equal to the force of gravity or:

[tex]\frac{GMm}{r^2}= \frac{mv^2}{r}[/tex]

This reduces to

[tex]\frac{GM}{r} = v^2[/tex]

Given that the period(P) is the time it would take for the object to travel a distance of [itex]2\pi r[/itex]

A little algebra will get you

[tex]P^2 = 4 \pi^2 \frac{r^3}{GM}[/tex]

Which demonstrates Kepler's third law.
 
thanks=) everyone

janus: I'll be learning about that formula you posted (force of gravity) in the next sub-chapter chapter
 
After reading the next chapter, I understand everything, Janus. A very elegant explanation imo^^
 

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