Kinetics of bromide-bromate reaction

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Discussion Overview

The discussion focuses on the kinetics of the reaction between bromide and bromate ions in an acidic solution, specifically examining the timing of color change in the presence of phenol and methyl red as indicators. Participants explore various aspects of the reactions involved, including the stoichiometry and the implications of the timing of color disappearance.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that the red color disappears when all phenol reacts with bromine, leading to the cessation of reaction 2.
  • Others question whether reaction 3 can produce bromide ions while phenol is still present, indicating a need for clarification on the sequence of reactions.
  • A participant proposes that the quantity of bromide ions remains constant during the kinetic study, as the disappearance in reaction 1 is balanced by the production in reactions 2 and 3.
  • Another participant counters that the production of bromide ions is not constant and depends on whether phenol is present, suggesting that 3 moles are produced while phenol is present and 2 moles after it is consumed.
  • There is a discussion about the final quantity of bromine produced, with some indicating that it depends on whether bromide ions are limiting or if bromate ions dictate the reaction's end.
  • Participants express uncertainty regarding the timing of decolorization when phenol is re-added, with one suggesting that additional factors may influence the reaction time.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on several key points, including the behavior of bromide ions over time, the sequence of reactions, and the factors influencing the final quantity of bromine produced. Multiple competing views remain on these topics.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include assumptions about the completeness of reactions, the dependency on initial concentrations, and the potential influence of reaction rates on the observed outcomes. The discussion reflects varying interpretations of the stoichiometry involved.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students studying chemical kinetics, particularly those interested in reaction mechanisms and stoichiometry in acid-base reactions.

MaherBj
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Homework Statement


The aim of my exercise is to explore the kinetics of the reaction between bromide and bromate (V) ions in acid solution as shown below:
5Br– + BrO3– + 6 H+ → 3 Br2 + 3 H2O (Reaction 1)
To do this,To do this, a fixed amount of phenol (C6H5OH) and the dye methyl red (indicator) are added to the reaction mixture, the bromine reacts instantaneously with the phenol to form tribromophenol according to this reaction:

3 Br2 + C6H5OH → C6H2Br3OH + 3 H+ + 3 Br- (Reaction 2)

Once all the phenol added has reacted there will be excess Br2 released by the reaction. This will oxidize the methyl red causing the disappearance of the red color in the reaction mixture: (reaction 3)
Br2 + methyl orange → bleached methyl orange + 2Br–
(Red) (Colorless)
Thus, if the time (t) taken for the red color to disappear is measured from the start of the reaction then this will closely correspond to the time taken for the reaction to produce enough bromine to react with the known quantity of phenol.
I prepare the following mixture and add KBr at t = 0:
KBr: C0 = 0.02 M and V0=10 mL.
KBrO3: C1 = 0.005 M and VI = 10 mL
H2SO4: C2 = 1 M and V2 = 15 mL.
three drops of methyl orange indicator.
Phenol solution: C3 = 0.0001 M and V3 = 10mL
• C0, C1, C2 and C3 are the molar concentrations before mixing.
• The temperature is kept constant at 0 C during all the time of the reaction.

it takes 35 sec for the reaction-mixture to decolorize.


Homework Equations


Question 1:
Explain why the red color of the reaction-mixture disappears only at 35 sec.

Question 2:
how does the quantity (mole) of bromide ions that disappeared by reaction 1 vary with time?

Question 3:
What is the final quantity of bromine that could be produced at the end of the reaction??

Question 4:

At instant t1 = 35 sec,i re-add 10 mL of the phenol solution,it takes 50 sec (from t1) for the mixture to disappear. why this decolorization takes more time than before?(50> 34).

Question 5:



The Attempt at a Solution



for question 1:
when all phenol present reacts with the formed Br2, the red color disappears because reaction 2 is no more proceeding. Is this true?

for question 2:
I predict that it remains constant during the kinetic study because for every 5 moles of bromide ions that disappear in reaction 1 ,there are 5 moles of bromide ions appear by reaction 2 and 3. IS THIS TRUE??

i need your cooperation for answering the other questions.
Thanks in advance.

 
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MaherBj said:
I predict that it remains constant during the kinetic study because for every 5 moles of bromide ions that disappear in reaction 1 ,there are 5 moles of bromide ions appear by reaction 2 and 3. IS THIS TRUE??

Does reaction 3 proceed before all phenol is used?
 
reaction (3) proceed when all phenol are consumed
 
Can it produce any Br- when the phenol is still present?
 
Borek said:
Can it produce any Br- when the phenol is still present?
As long as phenol is present,three moles of bromide ions are produced (according to rxn 2) and once the phenol is consumed, 2moles of bromide ions are produced (according to reaction 3).
 
MaherBj said:

Homework Equations


Question 1:
Explain why the red color of the reaction-mixture disappears only at 35 sec.

Question 2:
how does the quantity (mole) of bromide ions that disappeared by reaction 1 vary with time?

Question 3:
What is the final quantity of bromine that could be produced at the end of the reaction??

Question 4:

At instant t1 = 35 sec,i re-add 10 mL of the phenol solution,it takes 50 sec (from t1) for the mixture to disappear. why this decolorization takes more time than before?(50> 34).

Question 5:



The Attempt at a Solution



for question 1:
when all phenol present reacts with the formed Br2, the red color disappears because reaction 2 is no more proceeding. Is this true?

for question 2:
I predict that it remains constant during the kinetic study because for every 5 moles of bromide ions that disappear in reaction 1 ,there are 5 moles of bromide ions appear by reaction 2 and 3. IS THIS TRUE??

i need your cooperation for answering the other questions.
Thanks in advance.

Q1 I guess it is true but is it an answer? hard to know what exactly they want, but probably something a bit more focused like why is it no longer proceeding and why only after a time?

Q2 Your answer does not seem true to me, count them again.

Q3 Surely you do not need our help to reason out and calculate that one?

Q4 (I suppose you had to add another drop of methyl red, I don't think it unbleaches does it?). Before attempting to answer this question I recommend to write out (here!) either to number of moles or the molarity and also the atomic molarity IYKWIM of all the things there (only the ones that change) at start and after 35sec and reason abokut that. I think they are testing your chemical reasoning rather than knowledge.
 
MaherBj said:
As long as phenol is present,three moles of bromide ions are produced (according to rxn 2) and once the phenol is consumed, 2moles of bromide ions are produced (according to reaction 3).

So not 5, but either 3 or 2, depending on the moment.
 
Thx epenguin..
But the answer of question 3 depends on part 2:
If the the quantity of bromide ions varies with time, then bromide ions determine the end of the reaction because it is the limiting reactant (according to the initial quantities introduced at t =0 and the coefficients of the reaction 1).
Then n (Br2)final = (3/5) × n0 (Br-)

But,If the quantity of bromide ions remain constant, then the excess reactant (bromate ions) determine the end of the reaction.
And n (bromine) at end of reaction = 3 n (bromate ions) at t = 0
 
So Mr Borek, which reaction in your opinion proceeds faster 2 or 3?
 
  • #10
MaherBj said:
But the answer of question 3 depends on part 2:

No, you can work out that from the quantities there at the start. Unless you do what I said you are not going to get this...

If the the quantity of bromide ions varies with time, then bromide ions determine the end of the reaction because it is the limiting reactant (according to the initial quantities introduced at t =0 and the coefficients of the reaction 1). and you will make mistakes IMHO :wink:

......
 
Last edited:
  • #11
MaherBj said:
So Mr Borek, which reaction in your opinion proceeds faster 2 or 3?

I am not referring to the reaction speed, but to the amount of Br- produced. Not 5 moles, but either 3 or 2, depending on the reaction.
 

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