La1.1.22 3 aug matrices for linear sys solution set is x_1=3,x_2=-2,x_3=-1

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around constructing different augmented matrices for linear systems that yield the solution set \(x_1=3\), \(x_2=-2\), and \(x_3=-1\). Participants explore various formulations and transformations of these matrices, examining the implications of their structures and the relationships between the equations represented.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Mathematical reasoning, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose starting with the equation \(3x - 2y + y = -1\) but later realize it does not yield the correct solution when substituting \(x=3\) and \(y=-2\).
  • There is a suggestion that a \(3 \times 4\) matrix is necessary due to having three unknowns, leading to the formulation of a simple augmented matrix from the direct equations \(x_1=3\), \(x_2=-2\), and \(x_3=-1\).
  • One participant presents an initial augmented matrix structure but later corrects it to remove the variable names, resulting in a matrix with coefficients only.
  • Another participant suggests an alternative augmented matrix by rearranging the rows, indicating that multiple configurations can represent the same solution set.
  • There is a discussion about the nature of augmented matrices and the expectations around row reduction, with some participants expressing confusion about the necessity of having a triangular form of zeros.
  • One participant describes a process of manipulating the augmented matrix through row operations, leading to new matrices, but acknowledges a sign error in one of the transformations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the need for a \(3 \times 4\) matrix and the basic structure of the augmented matrices, but there are differing opinions on the specifics of row operations and the implications of matrix forms. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to constructing the matrices and the correctness of certain transformations.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about the rules governing augmented matrices and row reduction, indicating a lack of consensus on the expectations for matrix forms and operations.

karush
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$$\tiny{la1.1.22}$$

$\textsf{Construct 3 different augmented matrices for linear systems whose solution set is}$
$$x_1=3,\quad x_2=-2,\quad x_3=-1$$Well we could start just by$$3x-2y+y=-1$$but then we need a $3\times4$ matrix
 
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karush said:
$$\tiny{la1.1.22}$$

$\textsf{Construct 3 different augmented matrices for linear systems whose solution set is}$
$$x_1=3,\quad x_2=-2,\quad x_3=-1$$

Well we could start just by
$$3x-2y+y=-1$$

When we substitute $x=3$ and $y=-2$, we get $3\cdot 3 - 2\cdot (-2) + (-2)=11 \ne -1$.
That's not going to work is it?

karush said:
but then we need a $3\times4$ matrix

We need indeed a 3x4 matrix since we have 3 unknowns, meaning we should have 3 equations for them.
The simplest augmented matrix would follow from:
$$\begin{cases}x_1=3 \\ x_2=-2 \\ x_3=-1\end{cases}$$
What is the corresponding augmented matrix?
 
I like Serena said:
When we substitute $x=3$ and $y=-2$, we get $3\cdot 3 - 2\cdot (-2) + (-2)=11 \ne -1$.
That's not going to work is it?

well actually its $x+y+z=3-2-1=0$
I like Serena said:
We need indeed a 3x4 matrix since we have 3 unknowns, meaning we should have 3 equations for them.
The simplest augmented matrix would follow from:
$$\begin{cases}x_1=3 \\ x_2=-2 \\ x_3=-1\end{cases}$$
What is the corresponding augmented matrix?

ok presumably this would be one case

$$\left[\begin{array}{rrrrr}
%x_1& x_2& x_3& 0\\
x_1& 0& 0& 3\\
0& x_2& 0& -2\\
0& 0& x_3& -1\\
\end{array}\right]$$
 
Last edited:
karush said:
ok presumably this would be one case

$$\left[\begin{array}{rrrrr}
%x_1& x_2& x_3& 0\\
x_1& 0& 0& 3\\
0& x_2& 0& -2\\
0& 0& x_3& -1\\
\end{array}\right]$$

... except that an augmented matrix is without the variables.
So it should be:
$$\left[\begin{array}{rrrrr}
%x_1& x_2& x_3& 0\\
1& 0& 0& 3\\
0& 1& 0& -2\\
0& 0& 1& -1\\
\end{array}\right]$$

And if we add both the second row and the third row to the first row, the first row becomes the equation that you've suggested... and we have a new augmented matrix.
 
I like Serena said:
... except that an augmented matrix is without the variables.
So it should be:
$$\left[\begin{array}{rrrrr}
%x_1& x_2& x_3& 0\\
1& 0& 0& 3\\
0& 1& 0& -2\\
0& 0& 1& -1\\
\end{array}\right]$$

And if we add both the second row and the third row to the first row, the first row becomes the equation that you've suggested... and we have a new augmented matrix.

the only other augmented matrix I see is just flipping this one to$$\left[\begin{array}{rrrrr}
0& 0& 1& -1\\
0& 1& 0& -2\\
1& 0& 0& 3\\
\end{array}\right]$$so the the third ?
 
karush said:
the only other augmented matrix I see is just flipping this one to$$\left[\begin{array}{rrrrr}
0& 0& 1& -1\\
0& 1& 0& -2\\
1& 0& 0& 3\\
\end{array}\right]$$so the the third ?

Do the reverse of a row reduction?
That is, add/substract rows such that instead of elements becoming zero, they become non-zero?
 
I like Serena said:
Do the reverse of a row reduction?
That is, add/substract rows such that instead of elements becoming zero, they become non-zero?
i thot augmented meant you had to have a triangle of zeros
 
karush said:
i thot augmented meant you had to have a triangle of zeros

Neh, an augmented matrix is just an encoding of a set of equations into a single matrix.
When we apply row reduction to an augmented matrix, we get a new augmented matrix in row reduced echelon form, which has indeed a triangle of zeroes.
 
I like Serena said:
Neh, an augmented matrix is just an encoding of a set of equations into a single matrix.
When we apply row reduction to an augmented matrix, we get a new augmented matrix in row reduced echelon form, which has indeed a triangle of zeroes.

ok here goes...

$$A=\left[\begin{array}{rrrrr}
0& 0& 1& -1\\ 0& 1& 0& -2\\ 1& 0& 0& 3\\
\end{array}\right]$$
$\textsf{so then if from $A$ we multiply $R_1$ by $2$ and add to $R_3$ to become $A_2$}$
$$A_2=\left[\begin{array}{rrrrr}
0& 0& 2& -2\\ 0& 1& 0& -2\\ 1& 0& 2& 1\\
\end{array}\right]$$
$\textsf{so then if from $A$ we multiply $R_1$ by $2$ and add to $R_2$ to become $A_3$}$
$$A_3=\left[\begin{array}{rrrrr}
0& 0& 2& -2\\ 0& 1& 2& 0\\ 1& 0& 0& 3\\
\end{array}\right]$$so then thusly
kinda maybe hopefully?
 
  • #10
karush said:
ok here goes...

$$A=\left[\begin{array}{rrrrr}
0& 0& 1& -1\\ 0& 1& 0& -2\\ 1& 0& 0& 3\\
\end{array}\right]$$
$\textsf{so then if from $A$ we multiply $R_1$ by $2$ and add to $R_3$ to become $A_2$}$
$$A_2=\left[\begin{array}{rrrrr}
0& 0& 2& -2\\ 0& 1& 0& -2\\ 1& 0& 2& 1\\
\end{array}\right]$$
$\textsf{so then if from $A$ we multiply $R_1$ by $2$ and add to $R_2$ to become $A_3$}$
$$A_3=\left[\begin{array}{rrrrr}
0& 0& 2& -2\\ 0& 1& 2& 0\\ 1& 0& 0& 3\\
\end{array}\right]$$so then thusly
kinda maybe hopefully?

All good except for $A_3$ where there is a mistake with a sign.
 

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