Ladder operator for harmonic oscillator, I don't get a mathematical

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mathematical formulation of the ladder operators for the harmonic oscillator and their implications for the Hamiltonian operator. Participants explore the relationship between the number operator and the Hamiltonian, addressing potential algebraic mistakes and the non-commutativity of position and momentum operators.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the ladder operators and calculates the number operator, leading to a comparison with the Hamiltonian operator for the harmonic oscillator.
  • Another participant points out that the initial claim about the number operator is incorrect due to the non-commutativity of the position and momentum operators, which affects the mixed terms in the calculations.
  • A later reply acknowledges the mistake regarding the operators and expresses gratitude for the correction.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the initial calculations, as there is acknowledgment of an error regarding operator properties, but the broader implications of the calculations remain contested.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the importance of operator commutation relations in quantum mechanics, which may influence the validity of certain algebraic manipulations. The potential misunderstanding of operator behavior is noted but not resolved.

fluidistic
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If the ladder operator ##a=\sqrt {\frac{m\omega}{2\hbar}}x+\frac{ip}{\sqrt{2m\hbar \omega}}## and ##a^\dagger=\sqrt {\frac{m\omega}{2\hbar}}x-\frac{ip}{\sqrt{2m\hbar \omega}}## then I get that the number operator N, defined as ##a^\dagger a## is worth ##\frac{m \omega x^2}{2\hbar}+\frac{p^2}{2m\hbar \omega}##.
In wikipedia and http://quantummechanics.ucsd.edu/ph130a/130_notes/node167.html, as well as in books, one can read that for the harmonic oscillator ##\hat H=\hbar \omega \left ( a^\dagger a +\frac{1}{2} \right )##. When I calculate the right hand side of this equation using my calculated value for N, I reach that ##\hbar \omega \left ( a^\dagger a +\frac{1}{2} \right )=\frac{\hbar \omega }{2}+\frac{m\omega ^2 x^2}{2}+\frac{p^2}{2m}##.
However for the harmonic oscillator the hamiltonian operator is ##\hat H=\frac{\hat {\vec p ^2}}{2m}+\frac{m\omega ^2 \hat x ^2}{2}##.
So that I do not reach that the left hand side is equal to the right hand side. Instead, I get that the left hand side is worth the right hand side + ##E_0##, the ground state energy. Am I making an algebra mistake?! If not, what the heck is going on?
 
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fluidistic said:
If the ladder operator ##a=\sqrt {\frac{m\omega}{2\hbar}}x+\frac{ip}{\sqrt{2m\hbar \omega}}## and ##a^\dagger=\sqrt {\frac{m\omega}{2\hbar}}x-\frac{ip}{\sqrt{2m\hbar \omega}}## then I get that the number operator N, defined as ##a^\dagger a## is worth ##\frac{m \omega x^2}{2\hbar}+\frac{p^2}{2m\hbar \omega}##.
This is not true because x and p don't commute, so the mixed terms don't vanish. xp is not equal to px, but to px + [x,p].
 
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kith said:
This is not true because x and p don't commute, so the mixed terms don't vanish. xp is not equal to px, but to px + [x,p].

My bad, you are right. For a moment I forgot that x and p were operators. Thank you very much!
 
You're welcome ;-)
 

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