Ladder problem (statics) with 2 sources of friction

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The discussion revolves around calculating the maximum angle θ for a uniform ladder resting against a wall, considering two friction sources with equal coefficients (μ). The equations of static equilibrium are applied, including forces and torques, leading to a formula for θ in terms of μ. A participant identifies an algebraic error in their simplification process, initially yielding an incorrect result. The conversation also touches on the implications of μ being greater than 1, suggesting that while a solution exists, the angle would be very small. The overall focus remains on deriving the correct angle without slipping.
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Homework Statement


A uniform ladder of mass m and length L rests against the wall as shown. The coefficients of static friction between the floor and the ladder and between the wall and the ladder are equal to each other (μ). What is the maximum value of angle θ that the ladder can make with the wall without sliding? (Use m for m, L for L, mu for μ, and arcsin, arccos, and arctan for the inverse trig functions.)

Homework Equations


f(friction)≤μN(normal force)
t(torque)=r(moment arm)Fsinθ
G=mg

The Attempt at a Solution


FBD is attached

because the ladder is not moving
t=-mgLsinθ/2+NfLsinθ-μNfLcosθ=0
Fx=Nw-ff=0
Fy=Nf+fw-mg=0

Solve t for Nf
NfLsinθ-μNfLcosθ=mgLsinθ/2
Nftanθ-μNf=mgtanθ/2
Nf=mgtanθ/(2(tanθ-μ))

When θ is at its maximum without the ladder slipping, f=μN.
ff=μmgtanθ/(2(tanθ-μ))
Solve Fxfor Nw
Nw=μmgtanθ/(2(tanθ-μ))
Also fw2mgtanθ/(2(tanθ-μ))

Solve Fy for θ.
mgtanθ/(2(tanθ-μ))+μ2mgtanθ/(2(tanθ-μ))=mg
tanθ/(2(tanθ-μ))+μ2tanθ/(2(tanθ-μ))=1
tanθ=2(tanθ-μ)/(1+μ2)
(tanθ-μ)/tanθ=(1+μ2)/2
1-μ/tanθ=(1+μ2)/2
μ/tanθ=1-(1+μ2)/2
tanθ=μ/(1-(1+μ2)/2)
θ=arctan(μ/(1-(1+μ2)/2))
 

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Your work looks good to me. You can simplify your answer a bit.

[Would there be a solution if ##\mu > 1##? For most substances ##\mu < 1##, but there exist substances for which ##\mu > 1##.]
 
Last edited:
Oh yes it is. I finally figured out where my mistake was. I've been trying to simplify the answer and it would come out wrong. I would get an answer like 2/(1+μ). A simple algebra mistake. Thanks. :) By the way, if I am thinking correctly, the angle would exist but it would be extremely small.
 
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