Ladder with 2 forces of friction and a person climbing (statics)

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves a uniform ladder of mass m and length L resting against a frictionless wall, with a person climbing it. The goal is to determine how far the person can climb before the ladder begins to slide, considering the static friction between the ladder and the floor.

Discussion Character

  • Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss free body diagrams (FBD) and equations related to forces and torques acting on the ladder. There are attempts to solve for normal forces and distances, with some participants questioning the assumptions about friction at the wall and floor.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided calculations and corrections regarding the forces involved, particularly focusing on the frictional forces and their implications. There is an acknowledgment of confusion regarding the problem setup, and some clarification has been offered about the conditions of the wall being frictionless.

Contextual Notes

There is mention of potential confusion between this problem and another, as well as questions about the angle θ and its role in the equations. Participants are navigating through the implications of the problem's constraints and the definitions of the forces involved.

natasha13100
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1. Homework Statement
A uniform ladder of mass m and length L rests against the wall as shown. The wall is frictionless. The coefficient of static friction between the floor and the ladder is μ. The ladder makes the angle θ with the wall. How far along the ladder can a person of mass m climb before the ladder begins to slide?

2. Homework Equations
f(friction)≤μN(normal force)
t(torque)=r(moment arm)Fsinθ
G=mg

3. The Attempt at a Solution
FBD is attached

because the ladder is not moving
t=-mgLsinθ/2+NfLsinθ-μNfLcosθ-mg(L-x)sinθ=0
Fx=Nw-ff=0
Fy=Nf+fw-2mg=0

Solve t for Nf
NfLsinθ-μNfLcosθ=mgLsinθ/2+mg(L-x)sinθ
Nftanθ-μNf=mgtanθ/2+mg(L-x)tanθ/L
Nf=mg(1/2+(L-x)/L)/(1-mu/tanθ)

When θ is at its maximum without the ladder slipping, f=μN.
ff=μmg(1/2+(L-x)/L)/(1-mu/tanθ)
Solve Fxfor Nw
Nw=μmg(1/2+(L-x)/L)/(1-mu/tanθ)
Also fw=μ2mg(1/2+(L-x)/L)/(1-mu/tanθ)

Solve Fy for x.
mg(1/2+(L-x)/L)/(1-mu/tanθ)+μ2mg(1/2+(L-x)/L)/(1-mu/tanθ)-2mg=0
3/2-x/L=2(1-μ/tanθ)/(1+μ2)
x/L=3/2-2(1-μ/tanθ)/(1+μ2)
x=L(3/2-2(1-μ/tanθ)/(1+μ2))
 

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The wall is frictionless, so [STRIKE]ff=0[/STRIKE]. fw=0
Edit: It is fw that is zero
ehild
 
Last edited:
There is friction in the floor, so ff is not 0. However, fw should be 0 as the wall is frictionless.

Dr Peter Vaughan
BASIS Peoria Physics
 
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Okay, I feel really dumb. I mixed together this problem with the one below it when I was working. This is a lot easier.
Solve for Nf using Fy.
Nf=2mg
Solve for x using t.
-mg(L-x)sinθ-mgLsinθ/2+2mgLsinθ-2μmglcosθ=0
-mgxsinθ+mgLsinθ/2-2μmglcosθ=0
mgxsinθ=2μmglcosθ-mgLsinθ/2
xtanθ=2μL-Ltanθ/2
x=2μL/tanθ-L/2
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
 
It is correct now.

ehild
 
Where are you getting an angle to plug into your equations? The question just says that it touches the wall at angle theta.
 

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