Laddermill- novel windmill design

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a novel windmill design called the Laddermill, being developed at TU Delft in the Netherlands. Participants explore its mechanics, potential applications, and the challenges associated with its operation, particularly in terms of kite synchronization and tether dynamics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express intrigue about the Laddermill concept, noting its potential for generating energy in remote locations without traditional fuel sources.
  • Concerns are raised about the mechanics of the system, particularly regarding how the loop connects to the ground and the absence of visible pulleys in the design.
  • One participant describes the operation of the kites, suggesting they will climb and dive in unison to create a pumping action that translates into rotational motion for energy generation.
  • There is speculation about the synchronization of the kites' lift factors and the potential use of inflatable kites that could be controlled to optimize their performance based on altitude and pressure.
  • Participants discuss the tether's design, including the possibility of varying its thickness and incorporating pressurization tubing into the tether structure.
  • Clarifications are made regarding the kites' movement, emphasizing that they do not revolve but rather alternate between climbing and diving to manipulate the tether.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion contains multiple competing views and remains unresolved regarding specific mechanics and design details of the Laddermill. Participants express differing understandings of how the system operates and the challenges involved.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in their understanding of the tether dynamics and the mechanics of kite synchronization, with some assumptions about the design remaining unverified.

aeroboyo
Messages
69
Reaction score
0
what do you all think of this idea? It's being developed by people at TU DELFT in holland...

http://www.lr.tudelft.nl/live/pagina.jsp?id=8d16d19a-e942-45aa-9b52-48deb9312e92&lang=en

promising?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Engineering news on Phys.org
It looks intriguing, but I can't load the movie to see how it works. The still pictures seem to show a system that doesn't actually do anything. How does the loop connect to the ground? I don't see any pulleys or anything.
 
The movie (all 11.7Mb of it) doesn't show much either, though I gather from reading the website that the "mill" is a long string of kite-like planes that will be controlled from the ground and made to climb and dive in unison. It appears that the tether will be wrapped around some kind of shaft with a resistive load attached, so that the "pumping" action of the kites can be translated into a rotation that can drive a generator or something similar. It could be a neat way to pump water in a remote location without hauling in motorized pumps, fuel, etc.
 
I can foresee some awesome work needed to synchronize all of the individual lift factors.
 
Danger said:
I can foresee some awesome work needed to synchronize all of the individual lift factors.
It may be something as simple as designing inflatable kites that lift when inflated to a certain pressure and dive when the pressure is reduced. Taking altitude-dependent external air pressure into account could easily be as simple as installing orifices at a number of locations along the string to gradually reduce the pressure delivered to the next-higher group of kites. The pressure (and lift coefficient) of inflatable kites could be computer-controlled, or perhaps even automatically controlled mechanically by valves that are actuated at the desired limit of retraction and extension of the tether. There are a lot of ways to skin that particular cat. Depending on the lift generated by each kite the upper tethers can be very thin and lightweight, while the lower segment of tether may have to be pretty beefy to have the appropriate tensile strength. If the tubing used to pressurize the kites can be incorporated into the tether, that would simplify things a bit more.
 
Okay... I'm pissed as a nit right now... leftover from the Legion Remembrance Day party. I still don't see how you would vary the thickness of the tether during its course.
 
Danger said:
Okay... I'm pissed as a nit right now... leftover from the Legion Remembrance Day party. I still don't see how you would vary the thickness of the tether during its course.
Not actively, a simple taper.
 
Okay... I must have missed something in the original explanation. I was under the impression that the 'tether' is solidly attached to the airfoils and revolves around the system with them.
 
The kites do not revolve or loop or anything like that. They are intended to climb and dive alternately in unison, pulling out a length of tether, then diving so it can retract. This pumping action is translated into a rotational motion at the base because the tether is wrapped around a drum of some sort, which will spin counterclockwise then clockwise alternately as the tether is pulled out and retracted.
 
  • #10
Thanks, Turbo. That clears it up. I thought that it was set up something like an aerial gondola, with the kites dropping down one side and climbing up the other in a constant motion. Makes sense now.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
Replies
5
Views
5K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
3K
Replies
13
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 34 ·
2
Replies
34
Views
3K
  • · Replies 69 ·
3
Replies
69
Views
8K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 40 ·
2
Replies
40
Views
9K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K