Laplace transform for system DFE

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around solving a system of differential equations using the Laplace transform. Participants explore different methods for addressing the equations and express varying levels of familiarity with the topic.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks assistance in solving the system of equations defined by dx/dt = -x + y and dy/dt = 2x, with initial conditions x(0) = 0 and y(0) = 1.
  • Another participant questions whether the system involves one or several independent variables, suggesting it appears to involve several.
  • Some participants clarify the notation used in the equations, discussing the implications of using ordinary versus partial derivatives.
  • A participant expresses skepticism about the relevance of independent variables not stated in the problem, arguing that they would not affect the solution.
  • One participant proposes using the Laplace transform to convert the system into algebraic equations, while another suggests differentiating the first equation to derive a second-order linear equation.
  • A different approach is presented using matrix notation, indicating that the solution can be expressed in terms of the matrix exponential.
  • Some participants reiterate the Laplace transform method, emphasizing the need to decouple the equations or express one variable in terms of the other.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing opinions on the best method to solve the system, with some favoring the Laplace transform approach and others preferring to derive a second-order equation or use matrix methods. No consensus is reached on a single preferred solution method.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the discussion involves assumptions about the nature of the variables and the applicability of different mathematical techniques, which may not be fully resolved within the thread.

wxrebecca
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dx/dt= -x+y
dy/dt= 2x
x(0)=0
y(0)=1

I'm not familiar how to solve a system like this. Somebody please help?

Thanks
 
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Is it an equation of one or several independent variables?
 
I think it's several independent variables. However, the question didn't say so
 
wxrebecca said:
I think it's several independent variables. However, the question didn't say so

Which of the following did it look like:

[itex]\frac{dx}{dt}=-x+y[/itex]

[itex]\frac{dy}{dt}=2x[/itex]

[itex]x(0)=0[/itex]

[itex]y(0)=1[/itex]

or

[itex]\frac{\partial x}{\partial t}=-x+y[/itex]

[itex]\frac{\partial y}{\partial t}=2x[/itex]

[itex]x(0)=0[/itex]

[itex]y(0)=1[/itex]
 
mjpam said:
Which of the following did it look like:

[itex]\frac{dx}{dt}=-x+y[/itex]

[itex]\frac{dy}{dt}=2x[/itex]

[itex]x(0)=0[/itex]

[itex]y(0)=1[/itex]

or

[itex]\frac{\partial x}{\partial t}=-x+y[/itex]

[itex]\frac{\partial y}{\partial t}=2x[/itex]

[itex]x(0)=0[/itex]

[itex]y(0)=1[/itex]



it's the first one.
but what's the differences between these two exactly?
 
I'm not sure why mjpam asked the question in the first place. The only differentiation is with respect to t so even if there were other (unstated) independent variables, it would make no difference to the solution. If solutions to differential equations (and other problems) depended on variables we knew nothing about, we would never be able to solve any problem!

wxrebecca, you titled this "Laplace transform for system DFE". If you really are required to use Laplace transform, then, you just take the Laplace transform of each equation, [itex]L(dx/dt)= -L(x)+ L(y)[/itex] and [itex]L(dy/dt)= 2L(x)[/itex]. That will reduce to two algebraic equations for L(x) and L(y). Once you have solved for those, use a transform table to find x and y as functions of t.

Personally, I have never liked Laplace transform. What I would do is differentiate the first equation again:
[tex]\frac{d^2x}{dt^2}= -\frac{dx}{dt}+ \frac{dy}{dt}[/tex]
From the second equation, dy/dt= 2x so that equation is
[tex]\frac{d^2x}{dt^2}= -\frac{dx}{dt}+ 2x[/tex]
or
[tex]\frac{d^2x}{dt^2}+ \frac{dx}{dt}- 2x= 0[/tex]
a second order linear equation with constant coefficients. Once you have solved that, you can use the fact that
[tex]y= \frac{dx}{dt}+ x[/tex]
from the first equation to solve for y.
 
HallsofIvy said:
I'm not sure why mjpam asked the question in the first place. The only differentiation is with respect to t so even if there were other (unstated) independent variables, it would make no difference to the solution. If solutions to differential equations (and other problems) depended on variables we knew nothing about, we would never be able to solve any problem!

If y is a function of x,

[itex]\frac{dy}{dx}=\frac{d^{2}x}{dt^2}[/itex]

It seems to simplify the equation.
 
Write it as this
[tex] \begin{pmatrix}<br /> \dot x(t)\\ \dot y(t)<br /> \end{pmatrix}=<br /> \begin{bmatrix}<br /> -1 &1\\2 &0<br /> \end{bmatrix}<br /> \begin{pmatrix}<br /> x(t) \\y(t)<br /> \end{pmatrix}[/tex]

Just like in the scalar case the solution of this differential equation is given as
[tex] \begin{pmatrix}<br /> x(t)\\y(t)<br /> \end{pmatrix} = e^{At}<br /> \begin{pmatrix}<br /> x(0)\\y(0)<br /> \end{pmatrix}[/tex]
So you have to find the matrix exponential and you are done. It is not element by element exponantiation by the way. I'll leave that to you.
 
wxrebecca said:
dx/dt= -x+y
dy/dt= 2x
x(0)=0
y(0)=1

I'm not familiar how to solve a system like this. Somebody please help?

Thanks

HallsofIvy has solved your problem. You just need to take the Laplace transform of both equations, and use the expressions for the laplce transform of the derivative of a function:

[tex]\mathcal{L}(dy/dt) = sY(s) - y(0)[/tex]

This is a system of coupled equations. You can either decouple them, and get one equation (in x or y) which is of second order, or you can solve them by taking the Laplace transform of each, and expressing X(s) in terms of Y(s) or vice versa.

If you decouple them to get a second order equation (in say x) you must know x(0) and x'(0). You can get x'(0) from the first differential equation by plugging in the known values of x(0) and y(0). You already know x(0). There is no need to do a matrix exponential.
 

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