Last scatter by e-, light looks hotter, cooler, time, wavelength.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of last scattering in the context of the early universe, specifically regarding the time frame of last scattering, its relation to gravitational radiation, and the implications for B-mode polarization in the cosmic microwave background (CMB). Participants explore theoretical aspects and implications of these phenomena.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about the approximate time frame for 90% of last scattering, questioning whether it occurs in minutes, seconds, or fractions of a second.
  • Another participant asks for clarification on what specific scattering is being referenced.
  • It is noted that the universe became transparent to light from the afterglow, indicating that light no longer scattered at that point.
  • One participant mentions that the transition from plasma to gas took around 300,000 years, which is significant in understanding the thickness of the surface of last scattering.
  • Concerns are raised about how gravitational radiation might affect the polarization of hydrogen during recombination, suggesting that the effects could average out unless the gravitational wave period is comparable to the neutralization time.
  • A participant references external sources, including Wikipedia and New Scientist, to support their understanding of recombination and B-mode production.
  • Another participant states that the B-mode polarization signal peaks at about 2 degrees across the sky, indicating that the oscillation period of gravitational waves was greater than the time it took for the plasma to neutralize.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and confusion regarding the relationship between last scattering, gravitational radiation, and B-mode polarization. There is no consensus on the specific time frame for last scattering or the implications of gravitational radiation on polarization effects.

Contextual Notes

Some participants reference external sources to clarify their points, indicating that there may be limitations in the available information or definitions regarding last scattering and gravitational radiation.

Spinnor
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Over what approximate time frame does 90% (most) of last scattering occur, minutes, seconds, fraction of a second?

How does this time frame relate to the period of the gravitational radiation?

If the period of gravitational radiation were short it would washout b-modes?

Thanks for any help!
 
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Spinnor said:
Over what approximate time frame does 90% (most) of last scattering occur, minutes, seconds, fraction of a second?

How does this time frame relate to the period of the gravitational radiation?

If the period of gravitational radiation were short it would washout b-modes?

Thanks for any help!
What scattering are you talking about?
 
Chalnoth said:
What scattering are you talking about?

When the Universe became transparent to light from the afterglow, light no longer scattered.
 
Spinnor said:
When the Universe became transparent to light from the afterglow, light no longer scattered.
The surface of last scattering is quite thick in time. If I recall correctly, it took around 300,000 years for our universe to transition fully from a plasma to a gas. This is close to the age of our universe at the time this transition began.

In practical terms, this causes the smaller scales on the CMB to become blurred, which is why the CMB power spectrum gets smaller and smaller at high multipoles.
 
Chalnoth said:
The surface of last scattering is quite thick in time. If I recall correctly, it took around 300,000 years for our universe to transition fully from a plasma to a gas. This is close to the age of our universe at the time this transition began.

In practical terms, this causes the smaller scales on the CMB to become blurred, which is why the CMB power spectrum gets smaller and smaller at high multipoles.

Wiki is a little vague. From wiki, Chronology of the universe, Recombination

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronology_of_the_universe#Recombination

... As the universe cools down, the electrons get captured by the ions, forming electrically neutral atoms. This process is relatively fast (actually faster for the helium than for the hydrogen) and is known as recombination. ...

From reading about how B-modes were produced I thought I had an idea about what was going on from the following picture, see also below.

http://www.newscientist.com/data/images/ns/cms/dn25235/dn25235-1_1200.jpg

from,

http://www.newscientist.com/article...ipples-from-universes-birth.html#.UyjaU6hdWSp

If we had gravitational radiation effecting hydrogen as it recombined it seemed that for every atom that got the polarization enhanced one way there would be another atom with polarization the other way if the gravitational wave were "waving". It seems like the effect that produced B-modes should all get averaged to zero unless the period of the gravitational wave was longer or comparable to the time for most of the plasma to neutralize?

I hope my confusion is clear? Thank you for your help!
 

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Spinnor said:
Wiki is a little vague. From wiki, Chronology of the universe, Recombination

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronology_of_the_universe#Recombination

... As the universe cools down, the electrons get captured by the ions, forming electrically neutral atoms. This process is relatively fast (actually faster for the helium than for the hydrogen) and is known as recombination. ...

From reading about how B-modes were produced I thought I had an idea about what was going on from the following picture, see also below.

http://www.newscientist.com/data/images/ns/cms/dn25235/dn25235-1_1200.jpg

from,

http://www.newscientist.com/article...ipples-from-universes-birth.html#.UyjaU6hdWSp

If we had gravitational radiation effecting hydrogen as it recombined it seemed that for every atom that got the polarization enhanced one way there would be another atom with polarization the other way if the gravitational wave were "waving". It seems like the effect that produced B-modes should all get averaged to zero unless the period of the gravitational wave was longer or comparable to the time for most of the plasma to neutralize?

I hope my confusion is clear? Thank you for your help!
The B-mode polarization signal peaks at about 2 degrees across the sky. At the time, this was a distance of about 1.5 million light years. So yes, the oscillation period was clearly greater than the time that it took for the plasma to neutralize.
 

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