LCDM Model best value of ##Ω_k##

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the best value of the curvature density parameter ##\Omega_k## in the context of the LCDM model, particularly considering results from the Planck 2015 observations. Participants explore the implications of different values of ##\Omega_k## on the curvature of the universe, including the possibility of hyperbolic geometries.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how ##\Omega_k## can equal 1, suggesting that if the universe could be hyperbolic, then ##\Omega_k## might differ from 1.
  • Another participant asserts that ##\Omega_k## is not 1 but rather 0, clarifying that the total density parameter ##\Omega_{total}## equals 1, while ##\Omega_k## is derived from curvature.
  • There is a mention of the relationship between ##\Omega_k## and curvature, with one participant providing a formula for ##\Omega_k##.
  • Multiple participants discuss the total density parameter ##\Omega_T##, with some asserting it is always 1, independent of the universe's curvature.
  • One participant questions the accuracy of the total density parameter, referencing a potential error margin of 1.00±0.02.
  • Another participant provides a breakdown of results from WMAP and Planck, indicating that measurements yield a range for ##\Omega_k##, highlighting the uncertainties involved in these measurements.
  • There is a discussion about the compatibility of results from different experiments, noting that while individual measurements vary, they can overlap within their error margins.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the value of ##\Omega_k##, with some asserting it is 0 and others suggesting it could be different based on various measurements. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best value of ##\Omega_k## and the implications of curvature in the universe.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that measurements of ##\Omega_k## come with uncertainties, and the values can vary based on different observational data. The discussion reflects the complexity and nuance in interpreting cosmological parameters.

RyanH42
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Whats the best value of ##Ω_k## (Considering Planck 2015 results).I asked best value cause If you think our universe can be also hyperbolic so ##Ω_k## can be different then 1.
I remember the relationship between ##Ω_k## and k is
##Ω_k=-k/a(t)h^2## or some sort of something like that.k is zero I guess then How can
##Ω_k## can be 1

Thank you
 
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RyanH42 said:
How can
##\Omega_k## can be 1

##\Omega_k## is not 1 but 0. It's the total density parameter ##\Omega_{total}## which is equal to 1, not the curvature density parameter.
Planck results show ##\Omega_k## to be 0 with accuracy of +/- 0.005
http://arxiv.org/abs/1502.01589
Since error bars do exits, one can't rule out a hyperbolic nor closed universe, but it's hard not to notice that it's pretty damn flat nonetheless.
Also, the relationship is
##\Omega_k=-\frac{kc}{a^2H^2}##
 
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Can you fix your sentences
 
Yeah, sorry - Latex went bonkers there for a while. Should be fine now.
 
##Ω_T=Ω_M+Ω_Λ+Ω_k## (T=total),(M here matter BM+DM),(Λ Dark energy)

##Ω_T## is always 1.It not depend universe curvature (hyperbolic,flat,sphere),or time or anything else.Am I right ?
 
I see somewhere (I don't remember right know,sorry about that) the error in ΩTotal=1.00±0.02 Is that right ?
 
RyanH42 said:
##Ω_T=Ω_M+Ω_Λ+Ω_k## (T=total),(M here matter BM+DM),(Λ Dark energy)

##Ω_T## is always 1.It not depend universe curvature (hyperbolic,flat,sphere),or time or anything else.Am I right ?
No, ##\Omega_T## is the total density parameter with contributions from matter, radiation and dark energy densities:
##\Omega_T=\Omega_m+\Omega_r+\Omega_{\Lambda}##
This density is related to the curvature by:
##\Omega_k=1-\Omega_T##
That is, for curvature to be 0, ##\Omega_T## must be 1.
 
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RyanH42 said:
I see somewhere (I don't remember right know,sorry about that) the error in ΩTotal=1.00±0.02 Is that right ?
This relates to your other thread and my answers there. The measurements from Planck 2015 are consistent with total density being 1.000 +/- 0.005. The The number you refer to is most likely the WMAP 1-year (i.e., earliest, least accurate) result, which was 1.02 +/- 0.02.
You can find a nice breakdown of WMAP results here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilkinson_Microwave_Anisotropy_Probe#Measurements_and_discoveries
 
That site is really good.I see it.

The nine year result says ##Ω_k≅-0.037## (best fit WMAP only) so ##Ω_T≅1.037## which there's error signs of course.It means ##Ω_T## can be 1.020.But there's another number says ##Ω_k≅-0.0027## (WMAP+eCMB+BAO+##H_0## which here ##Ω_T≅1.0027## which not fits the other result.Here which is the best result.You say ##Ω_k≅0.005## I know that but I want to be sure.Thank you
 
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There is no one single precise value, and there'll never be one because that's not how measurements work. You always have uncertainties, and that's the key.

From WMAP-only measurements you've got the 0.037 result with error bars approx. +/- 0.044. That means it could be anything from -0.007 to 0.081 and you've not way of saying which precise value it actually is.
You then combine the result with data from other experiments, each of those having their own range of predicted values.
This let's you narrow the range to -0.0027 +/- 0.0039, which means the actual value can be anything from -0.0066 to 0.0012. That is a much better result. An order of magnitude improvement in accuracy.

Then you've got the other probe: PLANCK. It makes its own measurements, and after combining with all other available data, it ends up with 0.000 +/- 0.005.

All those results are compatible with each other, since the ranges overlap. For example, all three contain the 0 value for the curvature.
 
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