Leibniz's notation and how suggestive it is

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around Leibniz's notation in calculus, particularly its application in integration and differentiation. Participants explore the validity of using this notation for substitution in integrals and the underlying proofs or justifications for these manipulations. The conversation touches on theoretical aspects, mathematical reasoning, and the relationship between differentiation and integration.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that Leibniz's notation facilitates useful transformations in integrals through substitution, but question the proof behind these manipulations.
  • Others argue that the validity of substitution in integrals can be justified by the chain rule, indicating that this rule underpins the notational 'abuse' seen in calculus.
  • One participant emphasizes that while derivatives can be treated as fractions, the same clarity does not extend to integrals, raising concerns about the convergence of Riemann sums when using differentials.
  • Another participant asserts that integration is fundamentally linked to differentiation, suggesting that the substitution rule is analogous to the chain rule in integration.
  • There is a proposal for participants to prove the substitution rule themselves, indicating a desire for deeper understanding and engagement with the material.
  • One participant highlights the importance of the Fundamental Theorem of Calculus (FTC) in connecting integration and differentiation, suggesting it is a crucial aspect of the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the clarity and justification of using Leibniz's notation for integrals. While some find the connections to the chain rule and the FTC compelling, others remain unconvinced about the proofs and convergence issues related to Riemann sums. The discussion does not reach a consensus on these points.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions regarding the assumptions made about the convergence of Riemann sums and the definitions of differentials. The discussion also reflects varying interpretations of the relationship between differentiation and integration.

Werg22
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With the method of substitution with integrals, Leibniz's notation comes in handy has it shows us usefull transformation with simple manipulation. However, I'm asking myself what is the proof behind all that? For substituion, wouldn't have to use the definition of integral and use limits?
 
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All valid notational 'abuse' is justified by the chain rule. Rather sloppily: [tex]\frac{dy}{dx}=\frac{dy}{du}\frac{du}{dx}[/tex]
That is to say. You can prove the validity of the substitution rule in integrals and separation of variables in ODE's with the chain rule.
 
To phrase it another way, while the derivative is not a fraction, it is a limit of a fraction. We can always go back before the limit, make use of the fraction properties and then take the limit to show that derivatives has the properties of fractions. Leibniz notation, and especially, the definition of "differentials", [itex]dy= \left(\frac{dy}{dx}\right)dx[/itex], is a way of making use of that fact.
 
I understand that it is mearly an expression of fractions, and with derivatives the conclusions are obvious... however I fail to see that they make everything obvious for integrals, for there is no proof shown that the Riemann Sum in question will converge to the same result we find by manipulating dy and dx...
 
Yes there is since it is just the chain rule.
 
Werg22 said:
and with derivatives the conclusions are obvious... however I fail to see that they make everything obvious for integrals, for
Since integration is the 'reverse' of differentiation, everything that is obvious for differentiation has a mathematically trivial counterresult for integration. The substitution rule is just the integral version of the chain rule and the 'integration by parts'-rule is just the integral version of the product rule.

Why don't you try to prove the rule yourself? I`ll state it here:

If g' is continuous on [a,b] and f is continuous on the range of u=g(x), then:

[tex]\int_a^bf(g(x))g'(x)dx=\int_{g(a)}^{g(b)}f(u)du[/tex]

Start by assuming F be an antiderivative of f. Note that F(g(x)) is an antiderivative of f(g(x))g'(x) by the chain rule.
You can fill in the rest.
 
Werg22 said:
I understand that it is mearly an expression of fractions, and with derivatives the conclusions are obvious... however I fail to see that they make everything obvious for integrals, for there is no proof shown that the Riemann Sum in question will converge to the same result we find by manipulating dy and dx...

You're forgetting the essential link between integration and differentiation provided by the FTC. There's a reason we call the theorem "fundamental!"
 

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