Let's say I have something like[tex]d^2 u / d x^2 = u + u^2 /

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around solving a second-order ordinary differential equation (ODE) of the form d²u/dx² = u + u²/a, with u defined as 1/r. Participants explore integration techniques, variable substitutions, and the challenges associated with solving the equation, including the implications of using the chain rule and the nature of the ODE.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the equation d²u/dx² = u + u²/a and seeks to integrate it to express x in terms of r.
  • Another participant notes that using the chain rule leads to a complex expression involving derivatives of r with respect to x, expressing uncertainty about the solvability of the ODE.
  • A later reply introduces a modified equation d²u/dθ² = a u² - u + b, suggesting that solving for u first might simplify the process, but still acknowledges the complexity of the second derivative.
  • One participant identifies the equation as a non-homogeneous ODE and expresses skepticism about finding a solution, emphasizing the need for the chain rule due to the dependence of u on r.
  • Another participant suggests that it may be possible to solve for u(x) and subsequently for r(x) = 1/u(x), while reiterating the difficulty of the ODE.
  • A different approach is proposed by changing variables to transform the equation into a simpler form, discussing the characteristics of potential solutions and their asymptotic behavior.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying degrees of uncertainty regarding the solvability of the ODE, with some suggesting potential methods while others remain skeptical. No consensus is reached on a definitive solution or approach.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of the ODE and the challenges posed by the second derivatives and the need for chain rule applications. There are unresolved mathematical steps and assumptions regarding the relationships between variables.

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Let's say I have something like

[tex]d^2 u / d x^2 = u + u^2 / a[/tex], where [tex]u = 1/r[/tex]

How do I integrate to solve for x in terms of r?
 
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If [itex]u=1/r[/itex], then you are going to have to use the chain rule on the LHS to get something like:

[tex]\frac{2}{r^3}\big(\frac{dr}{dx}\big)^2-\frac{1}{r^2}\frac{d^2r}{dx^2}= \frac{1}{r}+\frac{1}{ar^2}[/tex]

Unless I have just really screwed something up, I don't see how this ODE can be solved, since each [itex]r[/itex] is (presumably) a function of [itex]x[/itex]

EDIT:
I should say that I don't know how to solve it.
 


Robert1986 said:
If [itex]u=1/r[/itex], then you are going to have to use the chain rule on the LHS to get something like:

[tex]\frac{2}{r^3}\big(\frac{dr}{dx}\big)^2-\frac{1}{r^2}\frac{d^2r}{dx^2}= \frac{1}{r}+\frac{1}{ar^2}[/tex]

Unless I have just really screwed something up, I don't see how this ODE can be solved, since each [itex]r[/itex] is (presumably) a function of [itex]x[/itex]

EDIT:
I should say that I don't know how to solve it.
Dang, I don't know how you did that, so I should have just posted the actual equation I am looking for, although I didn't realize until now that it would reduce to mostly constants. It is

[tex]d^2u / dθ^2 = a u^2 - u + b[/tex]

where u = 1/r and a and b are constants. θ isn't a function of r except as related in the equation after the integration as far as I can tell.

From what you have, (dr / dx)^2 would be exactly what I am looking for. It still includes a term for a second derivative of [tex]d^2r / dx^2[/tex], though, but if we just solved for u first, could we susbstitute back in for the second derivative of [tex]d^2u / dx^2[/tex] from the original equation, then integrate using u, then just change u to 1/r in the final form? I suppose just solving for du / dθ with the equation I just gave would be easiest, and I could take it from there.
 
Last edited:


Well, if [itex]u[/itex] is a function of [itex]\theta[/itex] then this is just a Non-homogeneuous ODE (which is incredibly tough to solve, I think.) However, [itex]u[/itex] is a function of [itex]r[/itex] which means you must use the chain rule to get the second derivative of [itex]u[/itex] with respect to [itex]\theta[/itex]. Then, you get a DE that I have no idea how to solve (and I suspect there is no solution.)
 


Okay, thank you, Robert1986. I'll see if I can find something else that approximates it.
 


Hold on; I had a minor malfunction.

Yes, I believe you can solve this for [itex]u(x)[/itex] and then [itex]r(x)=1/u(x)[/itex]. However, this is a very hard ODE to solve.
 


By change of variables, you can massage it into the form
y'' = y2+c [1]
where |c| = 1, and the sign of c is that of ab-1/4.
Consider instead
y'' = y2 [2]
This has solutions y = 6/(x-α)2. (There must be more general solutions too, but I haven't found them. In particular, there should be a solution through any prescribed point and any prescribed slope through that point.) For large y, [1] and [2] must behave much the same, so [1] has vertical asymptotes.
For c = -1, there is also the solution y = 1. Nearby solutions diverge from this in both x-directions.
For c = +1, [1] cannot have a horizontal asymptote. So I would think it must have multiple vertical asymptotes. The gap between the asymptotes need not be constant. Between any pair, the curve is symmetric: it descends from +∞, bottoms out somewhere, possibly y < 0, then reascends. The exact path is independent between each pair of asymptotes. It is completely determined by the size of the gap (or equivalently, by the value of y at y' = 0). It would be interesting to plot how the gap size depends on the minimum y.
HTH
 
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