LHC vs Cosmic Rays: What's the Difference?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the differences between the energies of cosmic rays and those produced in the Large Hadron Collider (LHC). Participants explore the reference frames used for comparison and the implications of colliding beams versus single particle impacts in terms of energy measurements.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how to compare cosmic ray energies to those produced at the LHC, specifically regarding the reference frame used for such comparisons.
  • Another participant suggests that comparisons should be made in the center-of-mass frame, noting that the highest energy cosmic rays reach about 750 TeV in this frame, while the LHC operates at 14 TeV for protons and 1150 TeV for lead beams.
  • A later reply emphasizes the importance of using a Lorentz transformation to ensure that comparisons are made in the same reference frame.
  • There is a query about the term "Oh My God particle," which leads to a request for clarification and links to external resources.
  • One participant describes an "Oh My God particle" as a scenario where gluons could potentially create a stable black hole, contrasting this with the behavior observed at the Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider (RHIC).

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the terminology and implications of cosmic ray energies versus LHC energies. There is no consensus on the best approach to comparing these energies or on the significance of the "Oh My God particle" concept.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes references to specific energy values and the importance of reference frames, but lacks detailed mathematical derivations or assumptions that could clarify the comparisons further.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying particle physics, cosmic ray research, or the operational principles of particle colliders.

Dmitry67
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Short question.

I know that COLLIDING beams are much more effective than when moving particle hits a target in observers reference frame. That is why they make a collider.

However, when Oh My God particles are observed they actually hit something that something does not move.

So, when we say that we can't reproduce Cosmic Rays energies on LHC, what exactly do we compare? What reference frame do we use?

Do we compare energies per particle in our rest frame (ignoring that it is a collider) or not?
 
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First, please don't call them "Oh My God particles". That's like calling San Francisco "Frisco".

To compare, we use energies in the center-of-mass frame. The highest energy cosmic rays have energies in the center of mass frame (assuming proton-proton collisions) of about 750 TeV. The LHC is designed to run proton beams at 14 TeV, and lead beams at about 1150 TeV.
 
Dmitry67 said:
Short question.

I know that COLLIDING beams are much more effective than when moving particle hits a target in observers reference frame. That is why they make a collider.

However, when Oh My God particles are observed they actually hit something that something does not move.

So, when we say that we can't reproduce Cosmic Rays energies on LHC, what exactly do we compare? What reference frame do we use?

Do we compare energies per particle in our rest frame (ignoring that it is a collider) or not?

You compare apples to apples in the same reference. Just use a lorentz transformation on the energy to make the change.

BTW what is an Oh My God particle?
 
An oh my god particle is when the gluon actually breaks an creates a stable black hole, the RHIC merely stretced a few gluons for a fraction of time, see this link to see what happened when they did that...http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/03/0318_050318_pin_blackhole.html The LHC will do much better.
 
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