Limit Inferior and Limit Superior

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of limit inferior and limit superior for sequences of real numbers, particularly focusing on proving inequalities involving these limits and exploring examples where equality does not hold. Participants express confusion regarding the definitions and properties of these concepts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a proof involving the inequalities of limit inferior and limit superior for a positive sequence.
  • Another participant asserts that limit inferior is always less than or equal to limit superior, citing the general property of inf and sup.
  • An example sequence is provided to illustrate the inequalities, where the limit inferior and limit superior values are calculated.
  • A request for clarification on how the limit values were derived indicates confusion about the definitions.
  • Another participant suggests that understanding the meanings of inf, sup, lim inf, and lim sup is crucial for grasping the concepts.
  • A link to a Wikipedia page is shared, which is described as having a useful graphic to aid understanding, despite the complexity of the content.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that limit inferior is less than or equal to limit superior. However, there is confusion and disagreement regarding the specific calculations and definitions of these limits, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved in terms of clarity and understanding.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about the definitions and calculations related to limit inferior and limit superior, highlighting a potential gap in understanding that may depend on the specific definitions used in different contexts.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students or individuals seeking to understand the concepts of limit inferior and limit superior in the context of sequences, particularly those struggling with the definitions and properties of these limits.

veronicak5678
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Prove that for any positive sequence a_n of real numbers
lim inf (a _(n+1) / a_n) <= lim inf (a_n)^(1/n) <= lim sup (a_n)^(1/n)
<= lim sup(a_(n+1) / a_n).
Give examples where equality does not hold.

Is lim sup always >= lim inf? I am having trouble understanding these concept and proving things about them without specific numbers.
 
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For your second question, the answer is obviously yes. Inf is always ≤ sup, so this relationship will hold as you take limits.

An example for the first question, the following sequence will work:
an = 2n for even n.
an = 1/2 for odd n.

lim inf an+1/an = 0
lim inf an1/n = 1
lim sup an1/n = 2
lim sup an+1/an = ∞
 
Could you please show how you got those values? I am obviously confused about the definition. My book isn't making much sense to me.
 
I suggest you get a better handle on the meanings of inf, sup, lim inf, and lim sup.

For the ratio, when n is odd the value is 2n+2, and when n is even the value is 2-n-1, so as n becomes infinite, the lim inf = 0 and the lim sup is infinite.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limit_superior_and_limit_inferior

The graphic on this page is a useful illustration. (Wikipedia has an unfortunate habit of getting extremely technical, and not separating the complex concepts form the simpler ones, so if the rest of the page isn't all that helpful, don't be discouraged.)

Basically, (and these definitions are not rigorous) the lim sup is the is the "smallest value that the sequence is *eventually* not bigger than" and the lim inf is the "largest value that the sequence is eventually not smaller than." Compare these descriptions with the picture, and hopefully it'll make more sense.
 

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