Limit of and Sin(9x)/x and 1/Cos(9x)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the limits of trigonometric functions as x approaches 0, specifically focusing on the limits of sin(9x)/x and 1/cos(9x). Participants explore the reasoning behind these limits and their implications in various contexts, including homework problems and intuitive understanding.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that substituting tan(9x) with sin(9x)/cos(9x) and dividing by x leads to a limit of 7/10, raising questions about the limits of sin(9x)/x and 1/cos(9x).
  • Another participant explains that the limit of sin(9x)/x as x approaches 0 is 9, while the limit of 1/cos(9x) is 1, attributing this to the behavior of the cosine function at x = 0.
  • It is suggested that if the expression were x/cos(9x), the limit would be 0, as x approaches 0.
  • Participants discuss the intuitive reasoning behind the limits, including the approximation of sin(x) by x for small values of x and the application of L'Hôpital's rule or the squeeze theorem.
  • A later reply introduces a substitution method using k in the limit of sin(kx)/x, demonstrating that the limit can be expressed as k, reinforcing the understanding of the limit behavior.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the limits of sin(9x)/x and 1/cos(9x) as x approaches 0, but there are varying explanations and methods proposed to understand these limits. The discussion remains exploratory without a definitive consensus on the best approach.

Contextual Notes

Some participants mention the potential use of L'Hôpital's rule and geometric proofs, indicating that not all participants may be familiar with these concepts, which could affect their understanding of the limits discussed.

Drakkith
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In a homework problem I had to find the limit as x goes to 0 of the function: sin(7x)/[x+tan(9x)]

Substituting sin(9x)/cos(9x) in for tan(9x) then dividing the top and bottom by x and finding the limit supposedly yields 7/1+(9)(1), giving an answer of 7/10.

What I don't get is why the limit as x goes to 0 of sin(9x)/x is 9, but the limit of 1/cos(9x) is 1 and not 1/9. Would it make a difference if it was x/cos(9x) instead?
 
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Drakkith said:
What I don't get is why the limit as x goes to 0 of sin(9x)/x is 9, but the limit of 1/cos(9x) is 1 and not 1/9. Would it make a difference if it was x/cos(9x) instead?

Because ##\cos(9x)## is not ##0## at ##x = 0##, you can simply plug in the value of ##0## to see that ##\lim_{x \to 0} 1/\cos(9x) = 1/1 = 1##. We can't do this for the ##\sin(9x)/x## because it is not defined for ##x = 0##.

Likewise, for ##\lim_{x \to 0} x/\cos(9x)##, we have ##\lim_{x \to 0} x/\cos(9x) = 0/1 = 0##

If you want an intuitive reason, it's because for ##x## close to ##0##, you may have learned that ##\sin(x) \approx x##. Then it makes sense that ##\lim_{x \to 0} \sin(9x)/x = 9##.

If you know L'Hôpital's rule, then this can also be seen, and there is also a geometric proof using the squeeze theorem to show the correct limit for your sine example, but honestly, the best thing to do is look at some graphs of the two.

Another intuitive approach: the cosine function is approaching ##1## as ##x \to 0##, so the ratio of ##\frac{k}{\cos(x)}## as ##x \to 0## will just be ##k## (there are no problems with dividing by zero.
Things become more tricky with the sine function, because it is approaching 0. If it were some constant k divided by the sine function, you can see that the limit would not exist, but because both the numerator and denominator are approaching 0, it's a bit more subtle than that, because it's possible for both of them to be approaching in such a way that they have a constant ratio for ##x## near ##0##.

If you have not covered L'Hôpital's rule yet, it will make more sense when you do.
 
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Okay, that makes much more sense.

axmls said:
If you have not covered L'Hôpital's rule yet, it will make more sense when you do.

Ah, I see it now. Thanks!
 
I was working a similar problem with someone today and I realized I forgot to point this out, if you haven't already done it this way.

Consider the following limit: $$\lim_{x \to 0} \frac{\sin(k x)}{x}$$
Where ##k## is a nonzero constant. Then we can take advantage of the fact that we know $$\lim_{x \to 0} \frac{\sin(x)}{x} = 1$$
by making the substitution ##u = kx##, so that we get
$$\lim_{u \to 0}\frac{\sin(u)}{\frac{u}{k}}=\lim_{u \to 0} k \frac{\sin(u)}{u} = k \lim_{u \to 0} \frac{\sin(u)}{u} = k \cdot 1 = k$$
If you haven't seen it done that way, I feel like it makes it a bit more intuitive.
 
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