Linear Map Input: Solving P'(1-x) | \pi\rangle

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding a linear map defined as $$T:P_3(R)->P_2(R)$$ with the expression $$T(p(x))=P'(1-x)$$. Participants explore the implications of this mapping, particularly focusing on the derivative of polynomials and the substitution involved in the transformation from one polynomial space to another. The conversation includes technical explanations and clarifications related to polynomial derivatives and linear mappings.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion regarding the mapping and the substitution step involved in the linear transformation.
  • Another participant clarifies that the derivative of a polynomial can be expressed in terms of a new variable, leading to $$p'(1-x)=3(1-x)^2$$ when substituting $$u=1-x$$.
  • A further contribution explains the definition of the derivative of a polynomial without calculus, detailing how it can be represented in a matrix form and how this relates to linear mappings.
  • Participants discuss the matrix representations of the linear mappings involved, including the specific matrices for the derivative and the transformation, and how they combine to form the mapping $$T$$.
  • There is a mention of the potential confusion arising from using derivative notation in linear algebra contexts, suggesting that understanding the underlying vector space structure is crucial.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the mechanics of the linear map and the substitution process, but there is no explicit consensus on the best way to conceptualize the relationship between derivatives and linear mappings in polynomial spaces.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes various assumptions about the understanding of polynomial derivatives and linear algebra concepts, which may not be universally shared among participants. There are also references to specific polynomial bases and matrix representations that may require additional context for clarity.

Petrus
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Hello!
I have hard to understand this input for this linear map $$T:P_3(R)->P_2(R)$$
$$T(p(x))=P'(1-x)$$
so they get this value when they put in which I have hard understanding
vpyfll.png

I don't understand how they get those, I am totally missing something basic...!
The only logical explain is that in $$p'(x)=3x^2$$ where $$x=(1-x)$$ I don't get it.

Regards,
$$|\pi\rangle$$
 
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Petrus said:
Hello!
I have hard to understand this input for this linear map $$T:P_3(R)->P_2(R)$$
$$T(p(x))=P'(1-x)$$
so they get this value when they put in which I have hard understanding
vpyfll.png

I don't understand how they get those, I am totally missing something basic...!
The only logical explain is that in $$p'(x)=3x^2$$ where $$x=(1-x)$$ I don't get it.

Regards,
$$|\pi\rangle$$

Hey Petrus!

I suspect you have trouble with the substitution step.

Let's take the last one as an example.
I'm assuming that the step from $p(x)=x^3$ to $p'(x)=3x^2$ is clear.

The latter is equivalent to saying:
$$p'(u)=3u^2$$
That is, $p'$ is a function and if you apply it to $u$ you get $3u^2$.

Now, if we substitute $u=1-x$, we replace all $u$'s by $1-x$ and get:
$$p'(1-x)=3(1-x)^2$$
 
I like Serena said:
Hey Petrus!

I suspect you have trouble with the substitution step.

Let's take the last one as an example.
I'm assuming that the step from $p(x)=x^3$ to $p'(x)=3x^2$ is clear.

The latter is equivalent to saying:
$$p'(u)=3u^2$$
That is, $p'$ is a function and if you apply it to $u$ you get $3u^2$.

Now, if we substitute $u=1-x$, we replace all $u$'s by $1-x$ and get:
$$p'(1-x)=3(1-x)^2$$
Thanks a lot for the fast respond! I got it now! Have a nice day!:)

Regards,
$$|\pi\rangle$$
 
Although most people know the derivative from calculus, you don't need calculus to define the derivative of a polynomial.

Given a polynomial in $P_n(\Bbb R)$, say:

$p(x) = a_0 + a_1x + a_2x^2 + \cdots + a_nx^n$

We define the derivative $p'(x)$ (I prefer to write this as $Dp$ for reasons we shall see later) as:

$Dp(x) = a_1 + 2a_2x + \cdots + na_nx^{n-1}$

If one uses the basis: $B = {1,x,x^2,\dots,x^n}$ for $P_n(\Bbb R^n)$ one can identify (such an identification is called a linear isomorphism) $P_n(\Bbb R)$ with $\Bbb R^n$ like so:

$a_0 + a_1x + a_2x^2 + \cdots + a_nx^n \mapsto (a_0,a_1,a_2,\dots,a_n)$

In this basis (actually "two bases" but the basis for $P_{n-1}(\Bbb R)$ is "just like" the basis for $P_n(\Bbb R)$), $D$ has the nx(n+1) matrix:

$[D]_B = \begin{bmatrix}0&1&0&\cdots&0\\0&0&2&\cdots&0\\ \vdots&\vdots&\vdots&\ddots&\vdots\\0&0&0&\cdots&n \end{bmatrix}$

which makes it clear $D$ is a linear mapping.

We also have the linear mapping: $L: P_n(\Bbb R) \to P_n(\Bbb R)$ given by:

$L(p(x)) = p(a - x)$ for $a \in \Bbb R$.

It may be instructive to see the matrix of $L$ with respect to the basis $B$:

$[L]_B = \begin{bmatrix}1&a&a^2&\cdots&a^n\\0&-1&-2a&\cdots&-na^{n-1}\\0&0&1&\cdots&\frac{n(n-1)}{2}a^{n-2}\\ \vdots&\vdots&\vdots&\ddots&\vdots\\0&0&0&\cdots&(-1)^n \end{bmatrix}$

So the mapping you are given is just $L \circ D$ (with $a = 1$):

$(L \circ D)(p(x)) = L(D(p(x)) = L(p'(x)) = p'(1 - x)$.

For the case $n = 3$, we can see $D$ as having the 3x4 matrix:

$\begin{bmatrix}0&1&0&0\\0&0&2&0\\0&0&0&3 \end{bmatrix}$

and $L$ as being the 3x3 matrix (with $a = 1$):

$\begin{bmatrix}1&1&1\\0&-1&-2\\0&0&1\\ \end{bmatrix}$

Then multiplying these two matrices together, we get the 3x4 matrix:

$\begin{bmatrix}0&1&2&3\\0&0&-2&-6\\0&0&0&3 \end{bmatrix}$ which is the matrix for $T$ in the basis $B$.

Now the vector representing the constant polynomial $p(x) = 1$ in the basis $B$ is just: (1,0,0,0), while the vector representing $x$ is (0,1,0,0), the vector representing $x^2$ is (0,0,1,0), and the vector representing $x^3$ is (0,0,0,1). So applying the matrix of $T$ to these vectors, we get

$T(1) \to [T(1,0,0,0)]_B = [0,0,0]_B \to 0$
$T(x) \to [T(0,1,0,0)]_B = [1,0,0]_B \to 1$
$T(x^2) \to [T(0,0,1,0)]_B = [2,-2,0]_B \to 2-x = 2(1-x)$
$T(x^3) \to [T(0,0,0,1)]_B = [3,-6,3]_B \to 3 - 6x + 3x^2 = 3(1 - x^2)$

If, instead, your book had defined:

$T(p(x)) = (p(x))'$

we would have taken $D \circ L$, giving a different 3x4 matrix (using a 4x4 "L").

I find that the use of derivative notation in linear algebra problems involving polynomial spaces is sort of confusing, and obscures the underlying vector algebra: we just have some linear map $D$ on a vector space $V$, to understand what $D$ does, we need only examine what it does to a basis (and once having CHOSEN a basis, we can do everything in matrices relative to that basis).

Or, perhaps more simply put: everything you want to know about a polynomial vector space is given by the coefficients of the polynomials (the $x$ is just "excess baggage" in terms of the "vector-space-ness", although it does come into play when considering the RING structure of this vector space...but that is a topic beyond the scope of most linear algebra courses).
 

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