Linearised gravity approach to Lense Thirring metric

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the linearized gravity approach to the Lense-Thirring metric, exploring the mathematical formulation and implications of a rotating mass shell in general relativity. Participants delve into the calculations involving the Green's function solution, multipole expansions, and the evaluation of integrals related to the gravitational field produced by the rotating mass.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a shell of mass and its four-velocity, raising questions about the integration of the Green's function solution and the multipole expansion.
  • Another participant challenges the validity of the four-velocity components, asserting that the time component cannot be unity if other components are non-zero.
  • Concerns are raised about the integration of terms involving products of coordinates, with some integrals expected to yield zero due to symmetry, while others may not.
  • A participant corrects a previous statement regarding the integration of the product of coordinates, noting that certain terms will not vanish when integrated over the azimuthal angle.
  • One participant calculates a specific integral and derives a result that aligns with expected physical behavior, while also noting potential divergences in the metric at certain limits.
  • Another participant introduces an alternative method using complex variables to solve the problem, suggesting a different approach to the integration and solution of the equations involved.
  • There is acknowledgment of the alternative method's elegance and effectiveness in achieving the same results as previous approaches.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity of certain mathematical steps and the implications of their results. While some calculations are agreed upon, there remains uncertainty and debate over the interpretation of specific integrals and the overall approach to the problem.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the dependence on the choice of coordinates and the conditions under which certain terms can be simplified or neglected. The discussion also reflects the complexity of integrating functions involving delta distributions and the implications of symmetry in the problem.

ergospherical
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Doing some revision and getting confused. It's under GR but may as well be under electromagnetism or calculus because that is where the problem is. Taking a shell of mass ##\rho = M\delta(r-R)/(4\pi R^2)## and four velocity corresponding to rotation about ##z## axis i.e. ##U = (1, -\omega y, \omega x, 0)##. Looking at the ##\bar{h}_{i0}## component, say, the Green's function solution if I remember right,
$$\bar{h}_{i0} = -4 \int \frac{T_{i0}(\mathbf{x}')}{|\mathbf{x} - \mathbf{x}'|} d^3 \mathbf{x}'$$And I can take a multipole expansion
$$\frac{1}{|\mathbf{x} - \mathbf{x}'|} = \frac{1}{r} + \frac{\mathbf{x} \cdot \mathbf{x}'}{r^3} + \dots$$
Start with ##i = x##, where ##U_x = \omega y##

$$\bar{h}_{x0} = -\frac{4M \omega}{r}\int \frac{\delta(r'-R)}{4\pi R^2} y' \ d^3 \mathbf{x}' - \frac{4M \omega}{r^3} \mathbf{x} \cdot \int \mathbf{x}' \frac{\delta(r'-R)}{4\pi R^2} y' \ d^3\mathbf{x}' + \dots$$
So look at the first term. With ##d^3 \mathbf{x}' = r'^2 \sin{\theta'} dr' d\theta' d\phi'## and putting also ##y' = r' \sin{\phi'}##, then the integral over ##\phi'## from ##0 \rightarrow 2\pi## is going to zero.

With the second term, look at the part$$\mathbf{I} = \int \mathbf{x}' \frac{\delta(r'-R)}{4\pi R^2} y' \ d^3\mathbf{x}'$$Then $$I_{x'} = \int x' y' \frac{\delta(r'-R)}{4\pi R^2} d^3 \mathbf{x}$$and ##x'y' = r'^2 \sin{\phi'} \cos{\phi'}## is also going to go to zero when integrated over ##\phi'##, same story for the other two components. What's the issue?
 
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ergospherical said:
four velocity corresponding to rotation about ##z## axis i.e. ##U = (1, -\omega y, \omega x, 0)##.
The ##t## component of 4-velocity can't be ##1## if any of the other components are nonzero; the 4-velocity has to be a unit vector.
 
ergospherical said:
With the second term, look at the part$$\mathbf{I} = \int \mathbf{x}' \frac{\delta(r'-R)}{4\pi R^2} y' \ d^3\mathbf{x}'$$Then $$I_{x'} = \int x' y' \frac{\delta(r'-R)}{4\pi R^2} d^3 \mathbf{x}$$and ##x'y' = r'^2 \sin{\phi'} \cos{\phi'}## is also going to go to zero when integrated over ##\phi'##, same story for the other two components. What's the issue?
Typo: You should have ##x'y' = r'^2 \sin^2 \theta' \sin{\phi'} \cos{\phi'}##. But, still, the ##\phi'## integration for ##I_{x'}## will be zero .

But for ##I_y'##, you will deal with ##y'y' = r'^2 \sin^2 \theta' \sin ^2 {\phi'} ##. Integrating over ##\phi'## will no longer give zero.
 
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Thanks for spotting the error. I get ##I_y = R^2/3## which gives $$h_{x0} = \bar{h}_{x0} = -\frac{4}{3} \frac{MR^2 \omega y}{r^3}$$and I think this makes sense as the result because if ##L \sim MR^2 \omega## then I remember roughly that the vector potential should go like ##\mathbf{L} \times \mathbf{x}/r^3##. You'd also get $$h_{y0}=\bar{h}_{y0} = \frac{4}{3} \frac{MR^2 \omega x}{r^3}$$Also, close to the shell, ##r \sim R##, the size of the perturbation looks like ##\sim (4/3) \phi \omega x^i## with ##\phi = GM/R##. But taking ##r \rightarrow 0## you get divergence of the metric, which can't be right, although I'd still have expected it to be weak field there?
 
ergospherical said:
Doing some revision and getting confused. It's under GR but may as well be under electromagnetism or calculus because that is where the problem is. Taking a shell of mass ##\rho = M\delta(r-R)/(4\pi R^2)## and four velocity corresponding to rotation about ##z## axis i.e. ##U = (1, -\omega y, \omega x, 0)##. Looking at the ##\bar{h}_{i0}## component, say, the Green's function solution if I remember right,
$$\bar{h}_{i0} = -4 \int \frac{T_{i0}(\mathbf{x}')}{|\mathbf{x} - \mathbf{x}'|} d^3 \mathbf{x}'$$And I can take a multipole expansion
$$\frac{1}{|\mathbf{x} - \mathbf{x}'|} = \frac{1}{r} + \frac{\mathbf{x} \cdot \mathbf{x}'}{r^3} + \dots$$
The form of the expansion depends on whether ##r > r'## or ##r < r'##. Grabbing my copy of Jackson's E&M text, I find $$\frac{1}{|\mathbf{x} - \mathbf{x}'|} = \sum_{l = 0}^{\infty} \frac{r_<^l}{r_>^{l+1}}P_l(\cos \gamma)$$ where ##r_< \, (r_>)## is the smaller (larger) of ##r## and ##r'##. ##P_l## are the Legendre polynomials and ##\gamma## is the angle between ##\mathbf{x}## and ##\mathbf{x}'##. Your expression for the expansion would be for ##r > r'## (corresponding to ##\mathbf{x}## being outside the shell).

There's also the need to justify dropping the higher-order terms in the expansion.

The integral $$\bar{h}_{i0} = -4 \int \frac{T_{i0}(\mathbf{x}')}{|\mathbf{x} - \mathbf{x}'|} d^3 \mathbf{x}'$$ can be done without a series expansion. With ##T_{i0} = \rho \;\boldsymbol{\omega} \times \mathbf{x}'##, the key part is the evaluation of $$\int \rho(r') \frac{\mathbf{x}'}{|\mathbf{x} - \mathbf{x}'|} d^3x'$$ Choose spherical coordinates with the z-axis along ##\mathbf{x}## (not along ##\boldsymbol{\omega}##). So, in this integration, ##\theta '## is the angle between ##\mathbf x'## and ##\mathbf x##.The angular part of the integration is $$ \mathbf{I} = \int \frac{\mathbf{x}'}{|\mathbf{x} - \mathbf{x}'|} d\Omega'= \int_0^\pi d\theta' \sin \theta' \int_0^{2 \pi} d \phi' \frac{\mathbf x'}{\sqrt{r^2-2rr'\cos\theta' + r'^2}}$$ You can show that only the z-component survives the ##\phi'## integration. I get $$I_z = \frac {4 \pi} 3 \frac {r'^2}{r^2} \,\,\,\, \text{for } r > r'$$ $$I_z = \frac {4 \pi} 3 \frac {r}{r'} \,\,\,\, \text{for } r < r'$$
 
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TSny said:
I get $$I_z = \frac {4 \pi} 3 \frac {r'^2}{r^2} \,\,\,\, \text{for } r > r'$$ $$I_z = \frac {4 \pi} 3 \frac {r}{r'} \,\,\,\, \text{for } r < r'$$
This result shows that the integral ## \mathbf{I} = \int \dfrac{\mathbf{x}'}{|\mathbf{x} - \mathbf{x}'|} d\Omega'## has a direction along the z-axis that was chosen to compute the integral. This z-axis was chosen along ##\mathbf{x}##. So, ##\mathbf{I}## is along ##\mathbf{x}##. The result for ##\mathbf{I}## can be written $$\mathbf{I} = \frac {4 \pi r'^2} {3 r^2} \hat {\mathbf{x}}\,\,\,\, \text{for } r > r'$$ $$\mathbf{I}= \frac {4 \pi r} {3 r'} \hat {\mathbf{x}}\,\,\,\, \text{for } r < r'$$
 
@TSny I've come across quite a cool way to solve this. Maybe you've see it before... it's based on defining a complex variable ##H = h_{01} + ih_{02}##. (If we're only looking at the contribution sourced by ##T_{0i}## then ##\bar{h} = 0## and ##\bar{h}_{\mu \nu} = h_{\mu \nu}##, so we can just work with no bars...).

Instead of going via. the Greens function solution, just try to solve directly:$$\nabla^2 H = \nabla^2 (h_{01} + ih_{02}) = -16\pi(T_{01} + iT_{02})$$The nice thing is that ##T_{0k} = \rho u_0 u_k = -\rho (-\Omega y, \Omega x, 0)_k = -\rho \Omega R \sin{\theta} (-\sin{\phi}, \ cos{\phi}, 0)_k##
So we could define another complex variable ##T \equiv T_{01} + iT_{02}## which comes out as$$T = -i \frac{\Omega M}{4\pi R} \delta(r-R) \sin{\theta} e^{i \phi}$$and the equation to solve is ##\nabla^2 H = -16\pi T##. You can take a trial solution ##H = \mathcal{R}(r) \sin{\theta} e^{i\phi}##. And writing the Laplacian as ##\nabla^2 = \frac{1}{r^2} \frac{\partial}{\partial r} \left( r^2 \frac{\partial}{\partial r} \right) + \hat{L}##, with ##\hat{L}## the angular Laplacian, gives\begin{align*}
\frac{1}{r^2} \frac{\partial}{\partial r} \left(r^2 \frac{\partial \mathcal{R}}{\partial r}\right) \sin{\theta} e^{i\phi} + (\hat{L} \sin{\theta} e^{i\phi})\mathcal{R} &= i \frac{4\Omega M}{ R} \delta(r-R) \sin{\theta} e^{i \phi} \\
\frac{\partial}{\partial r} \left( r^2 \frac{\partial \mathcal{R}}{\partial r} \right) - 2r^2 \mathcal{R} &= i \frac{4\Omega M}{ R} \delta(r-R)
\end{align*}Given that ##\hat{L} \sin{\theta} e^{i\phi} = -2\sin{\theta} e^{i\phi}##.
You can then solve the homogeneous part in for ##r<R## and ##r>R## respectively, then join them together with continuity at ##r=R## and by integrating the jump condition between ##R-\epsilon## and ##R+\epsilon##. This gets the same result as the methods you described.
 
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