Link with spring-mass-damper system

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Discussion Overview

The discussion focuses on deriving a differential equation that relates the position of a mass 'x' to the position of a hinge 'y' in a spring-mass-damper system. Participants explore the implications of the system's dynamics, including the effects of rotation and feedback mechanisms, as well as the challenges of modeling the system accurately in simulations.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks to derive a differential equation relating mass 'x' to hinge 'y', questioning whether to replace 'x' with (x-y) in the equation due to the rotational link.
  • Another participant suggests that the system may involve damped-driven harmonic motion with feedback, questioning if the servo is active and providing a driving force.
  • A different participant discusses the stability of the spring-mass-damper system with a counterbalance and the goal of minimizing oscillations through a servo motor, indicating that they have derived transfer functions and state space for the servo.
  • One participant reiterates the need to derive a differential equation and expresses confusion about the relationship between 'x' and 'y', emphasizing the importance of measuring from equilibrium positions.
  • Another participant mentions that assuming small angles for simplification may not be valid, as they intend to keep the system nonlinear for simulation purposes.
  • There is a question about how to express the differential equation if considering y-y₀, indicating ongoing uncertainty about the formulation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the assumptions regarding the linearity of the system and the appropriate relationships between variables. There is no consensus on the correct approach to derive the differential equation or the implications of the feedback mechanisms.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the need for clarity on the definitions of variables and the assumptions made regarding the system's behavior, particularly in relation to linear versus nonlinear modeling.

trojsi
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From this mechanical part (attached), I need to derive a differential equation relating mass 'x' position to hinge 'y' position.

[itex]\ddot{x}m + b\dot{x} + cx = F[/itex]

The link l would be rotating. I am confused about considering the displacement of x with reference to y. Would this change the differential equation by replacing x with (x-y) ?

I derived an equation to relate 'y' with [itex]\theta[/itex] ;

[itex]y = lsin(\theta)[/itex]

Finally I also need to derive a differential equation from the previous two to relate the loading torque on the shaft for some rotation theta.

[itex]\tau = (\ddot{x}m + b\dot{x} + cx)lcos(\theta)[/itex]

I would really appreciate if you can give me some hints on my work. thanks
 

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Damped-driven harmonic motion with feedback?
Is the servo "active" (it is being driven by a motor and the second mass is just a counter-balance?) ... the it is just providing the f(t) in the standard equations.
 
I need to investigate some tight control on an open loop modelling of a servo motor linked with a spring mass damper system.
The linkage with spring mass damper is stable with a counterbalance on the other side. The aim is to shift the mass (by the servo) of the s-m-d system and eliminate oscillations as much as possible. The servo is modeled as having a feedback loop with theta. I will also be implementing a PID loop in the servo controller but the spring-mass-damper is open loop.

I already derived the transfer functions and state space for the servo which is simply a DC motor with a 10:1 gearbox.

My main confusion right now are the equations in my previous post. I need these in order to simulate everything together in simulink. attached
 

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Gotcha:
trojsi said:
From this mechanical part (attached), I need to derive a differential equation relating mass 'x' position to hinge 'y' position.

[itex]\ddot{x}m + b\dot{x} + cx = F[/itex]

The link l would be rotating. I am confused about considering the displacement of x with reference to y. Would this change the differential equation by replacing x with (x-y) ?
The F in the above relation is being applied at y - y moving up and down is what is generating it.
I derived an equation to relate 'y' with [itex]\theta[/itex] ;

[itex]y = l\sin(\theta)[/itex]
If ##\theta## is expected to be small enough that you can discount lateral movement then ##\sin(\theta)\approx \theta##
considering the idea is to minimize oscillations, that seems reasonable.

measure x from some equilibrium/rest position and y likewise ... then you'll see better how they interact.
 
Simon Bridge said:
If ##\theta## is expected to be small enough that you can discount lateral movement then ##\sin(\theta)\approx \theta##
considering the idea is to minimize oscillations, that seems reasonable.

I cannot assume this. The system has to remain non linear that is why it will be simulated via simulink. Dont worry, I will not be working any calc with a non linear system.
Simon Bridge said:
The F in the above relation is being applied at y - y moving up and down is what is generating it.
measure x from some equilibrium/rest position and y likewise ... then you'll see better how they interact.

Do you mean [itex]y-y_{o}[/itex] ? Then how would the differential equation be?
 

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