Litle help understanding the point behind Calculus .

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding the foundational concepts of calculus, particularly limits, and their significance in the broader context of the subject. Participants express confusion about the purpose of limits and how they relate to calculus operations such as differentiation and integration.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses difficulty grasping the concept of limits and their relevance in calculus, feeling that the textbook approach is overwhelming.
  • Another participant critiques the standard presentation of limits, suggesting that it obscures the excitement of calculus and proposes a more intuitive understanding based on graphical representations.
  • Some participants emphasize the importance of limits in understanding derivatives and the behavior of functions, noting that limits are essential for calculating rates of change.
  • There is a discussion about the confusion surrounding the substitution of values into functions and the rationale behind not substituting certain values directly.
  • One participant suggests that limits arise in situations where traditional methods do not yield a definitive answer, indicating that limits represent the value approached as inputs get infinitely close to a point.
  • Another participant mentions that limits are foundational for understanding calculus but acknowledges that the initial learning phase can be challenging.
  • Some participants propose alternative resources and methods for learning calculus, including specific textbooks and online videos.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally express confusion and differing opinions about the concept of limits and their role in calculus. There is no consensus on the best approach to understanding limits, and multiple viewpoints on their significance and teaching methods are presented.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note that the initial sections of calculus can be particularly challenging, and there are varying opinions on the effectiveness of different textbooks and resources. The discussion reflects a range of experiences and interpretations regarding the foundational concepts of calculus.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students beginning their study of calculus, particularly those struggling with the concept of limits and seeking different perspectives on learning resources and methods.

  • #31


sponsoredwalk said:
Average = \frac{1}{calculus \ - \ precalculus} \int_{precalculus}^{calculus} {(Undergraduate \ Course)}\,d(math)

:biggrin:
Hides before being banned
on grounds of FAIL status


(flagged as AWESOME)


p.s. what is the "Hides before being banned..." about?
 
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  • #32


The value of many things learned in mathematics may be clear only later on when they are used to understand higher level concepts. Limits are used to explain certain concepts in calculus. When you take calculus you'll understand. Learning math is a continuous process of learning simple concepts then building upon them to to understand more complicated concepts, and so on. At each step it may not be clear why. My daughter is taking pre-calc and was trying to understand the significance of natural logs (base e). Their real value only comes to light when studying calculus, but you need the basics first. To some degree you need to take it on faith that what you are learning will be useful at some point.
 
  • #33


I should have probably looked at the other posts but calculus integrates you're previous knowledge of mathematics and gives it precision. Calculus arose mainly as a tool for physics, but also as a refinement of previous mathematics. The biggest difficulty is really understanding the concepts of limits, differentials, and integrals. Beyond that, what you will see is fairly easy i.e. use this theorem, plug in that, follow that rule..blah blah. Calculus really just gives you a number of tools to provide talk about the behavior of functions. It is useful for describing physical phenomena; basically all processes found can be described as differential equations, albeit probably second order nonlinear partial differential equations nonetheless awesome. I'm taking partial differential equations next spring can't wait.
 
  • #34


To study a limit is to study the *behaviour* of a function as it approaches a certain point.
To provide an example, consider this: Let f(x) = 2x.. What kind of values do we get as we approach x = 5? What happens to the value of f( x ) as x approaches 5?

Let's say we list a couple of these values, values *close* to 5.. let's see what happens:

x1 = 4, f(x1) = 8, x2 = 4.1 f(x2) = 8.2 ... xn = 4.5, f(xn) = 9.. xp = 4.8, f(xp) = 9.6,... xz = 4.9 = f(xz).. f(4.9999) = 9.9998

We can see that as our "input" values go closer and closer to 5, our "output" value goes closer to 10.
If I then continued, f(4.9999999) = 9.99999998... and then finally f(5) = 10! Would it have mattered at all if I said f(5) = 10? You already "knew" that it was approaching 10.. What if I listed the same input/output values but then said f(5) = 1009381304141? Does this make a difference? No, as I said earlier.. we are considering the behaviour of our function AS IT APPROACHES a point, the value (if any) a function takes at the point itself is irrelevant.
 

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