Locating Points in 3D Space Based on Given Parameters

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around locating four points A, B, C, and D in 3D Cartesian coordinates based on specified parameters, including distances and angles. Participants explore the mathematical formulation necessary for simulating atomic attachments in a molecular context, focusing on bond lengths, bond angles, and torsion angles.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant outlines the need to locate points A, B, C, and D using parameters such as distances and angles, and seeks a general formulation for the problem.
  • Another participant questions the clarity of the angle definitions, suggesting that the angles between rays AB and AC need to be specified, and seeks clarification on the torsion angle.
  • A later reply confirms the intended meanings of the angles, specifying the angle between rays AB and AC and describing the torsion angle in terms of the planes defined by the points.
  • One participant provides a method for calculating distances between points using vector subtraction and suggests using the dot product to find angles between vectors.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing interpretations of the angle definitions and the torsion angle, indicating a lack of consensus on these aspects. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the precise mathematical formulation needed.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the clarity of angle definitions and the assumptions made about the geometric relationships between the points, which may affect the formulation of the problem.

joinforfun89
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Hi,

Let's think about 4 points A,B,C,D.
I need to locate the points in 3D Cartesian coordinates provided the following parameters are given about the point:
1] Distance between A and B.
2] Distance between B and C
3] The angle between A B and C.
4] The angle between B C and D.
5] The torsion angle A-B-C-D.

I want to program this up so that in my simulation I can attach atoms to each other provided the bond-lengths, bond angles and torsion angles are specified. I need help with the math. We know that we must start by setting up the coordinate system. So for the first set of 4 atoms, we can place A at the origin, B along any of the coordinate axes and finally C in a chosen plane. But once we are through with the first set, what is a general formulation for the solution of the problem ?

Please let me know if you know of any books/articles which deal with similar issues.

Thanks for your help.
 
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joinforfun89 said:
Hi,

Let's think about 4 points A,B,C,D.
I need to locate the points in 3D Cartesian coordinates provided the following parameters are given about the point:
1] Distance between A and B.
2] Distance between B and C

3] The angle between A B and C.
4] The angle between B C and D.
5] The torsion angle A-B-C-D.
I don't understand what you mean by these. Three points, A, B, and C, don't have a single angle. Assuming you meant the ray, AB, there still is no one angle between a line or ray and a point. Did you mean the angle between rays AB and AC? By "the torsion angle A-B-C-D" I think you mean "the angle around line AB that maps line AC onto AB" but I'm not sure of that.

I want to program this up so that in my simulation I can attach atoms to each other provided the bond-lengths, bond angles and torsion angles are specified. I need help with the math. We know that we must start by setting up the coordinate system. So for the first set of 4 atoms, we can place A at the origin, B along any of the coordinate axes and finally C in a chosen plane. But once we are through with the first set, what is a general formulation for the solution of the problem ?

Please let me know if you know of any books/articles which deal with similar issues.

Thanks for your help.
 
HallsofIvy said:
I don't understand what you mean by these. Three points, A, B, and C, don't have a single angle. Assuming you meant the ray, AB, there still is no one angle between a line or ray and a point. Did you mean the angle between rays AB and AC? By "the torsion angle A-B-C-D" I think you mean "the angle around line AB that maps line AC onto AB" but I'm not sure of that.

Yes I mean the ray AB and AC and the smaller angle that is made. The torsion angle can be thought of as the angle around line BC that maps line AB on to CD. In other words, the angle between the planes defined by points A,B,C and the plane defined by points B,C and D.


Thanks.
 
Distances between two points A and B can be found by taking the vector A - B and finding its length.

The smallest angle between two vectors can be found using using the dot product. Wiki it. It's a pretty straightforward formula.
 

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