Lorentz transformation and its Noether current

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculation of Noether current in the context of Lorentz transformations, specifically focusing on deriving the change in the Lagrangian density, ##\delta \mathcal{L}##. Participants explore the implications of the Lagrangian being a scalar field and the differences that arise when considering spinor fields.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the term involving ##\partial_\mu(-\omega^\rho_{~\sigma}x^\sigma \partial_\rho \phi)## and whether they should differentiate ##x^\sigma##.
  • Another participant clarifies that the equation they aim to reproduce is ##\delta \mathcal{L}=-\omega^\mu_{~\nu}x^\nu\partial_\mu \mathcal{L}##, asserting it follows from the Lagrangian being a scalar field.
  • There is a discussion about whether the treatment differs for spinor fields, with one participant noting that while the Lagrangian remains a scalar, the transformation of the spinor field requires additional considerations involving a spin matrix.
  • Participants discuss the implications of the antisymmetry of ##\omega_{\mu\nu}## and how it affects the terms in the calculation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the treatment of the term involving ##x^\sigma## in the derivative. There are competing views on how to handle the differentiation and the implications for scalar versus spinor fields.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the importance of recognizing the scalar nature of the Lagrangian and the specific transformation properties of different types of fields, which may affect the calculations and results.

Ken Gallock
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Hi.
I'd like to ask about the calculation of Noether current.
On page16 of David Tong's lecture note(http://www.damtp.cam.ac.uk/user/tong/qft.html), there is a topic about Noether current and Lorentz transformation.
I want to derive ##\delta \mathcal{L}##, but during my calculation, I encountered this:
\begin{align}
\delta \mathcal{L}&=\dfrac{\partial \mathcal{L}}{\partial \phi}\delta \phi+\dfrac{\partial \mathcal{L}}{\partial(\partial_\mu \phi)}\partial_\mu (\delta \phi)\\
&=\dfrac{\partial \mathcal{L}}{\partial \phi}(-\omega^\rho_{~\sigma}x^\sigma \partial_\rho \phi)+
\dfrac{\partial \mathcal{L}}{\partial(\partial_\mu \phi)}\partial_\mu
(-\omega^\rho_{~\sigma}x^\sigma \partial_\rho \phi).
\end{align}
The second term,
$$
\partial_\mu(-\omega^\rho_{~\sigma}x^\sigma \partial_\rho \phi)
$$
is a troubling term for me. Since there is ##x^\sigma## and ##\partial_\mu##, I thought I have to derivate ##x^\sigma## like ##\partial_\mu x^\sigma##. But if I do so, it doesn't match with the result in the textbook.
Am I supposed not to derivate ##x##? or am I missing something?

Thanks.
 
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Exactly which equation are you trying to reproduce?
 
Orodruin said:
Exactly which equation are you trying to reproduce?
I want eq(1.53):
$$
\delta \mathcal{L}=-\omega^\mu_{~\nu}x^\nu\partial_\mu \mathcal{L}.
$$
 
Ken Gallock said:
I want eq(1.53):
$$
\delta \mathcal{L}=-\omega^\mu_{~\nu}x^\nu\partial_\mu \mathcal{L}.
$$
This is a direct consequence of the Lagrangian being a scalar field.
 
Orodruin said:
This is a direct consequence of the Lagrangian being a scalar field.
Is it different when I'm dealing with spinor fields?
 
Ken Gallock said:
Hi.
I'd like to ask about the calculation of Noether current.
...
But if I do so, it doesn't match with the result in the textbook.
Thanks.
You get the same result, if you differentiate and remember to use the fact that your field is a scalar and \omega_{\mu\nu} = -\omega_{\nu\mu}:
-\delta \mathcal{L} = \frac{\partial \mathcal{L}}{\partial \phi} \left(\omega^{\rho}{}_{\sigma} x^{\sigma} \ \partial_{\rho}\phi \right) + \frac{\partial \mathcal{L}}{\partial (\partial_{\mu} \phi ) } \left( \omega^{\rho}{}_{\sigma}x^{\sigma} \ \partial_{\rho} \partial_{\mu} \phi + \partial^{\rho}\phi \ \omega_{\rho \mu}\right) . Arrange the terms to get \delta \mathcal{L} = - \omega^{\rho}{}_{\sigma} x^{\sigma} \ \partial_{\rho}\mathcal{L} - \omega_{\rho \mu} \ \partial^{\rho} \phi \ \frac{\partial \mathcal{L}}{\partial (\partial_{\mu}\phi )} . Now, for a scalar field, you have \omega_{\rho \mu} \ \partial^{\rho} \phi \ \frac{\partial \mathcal{L}}{\partial (\partial_{\mu}\phi )} \propto \omega_{\rho \mu} \ \partial^{\rho} \phi \ \partial^{\mu}\phi = 0 , because of the \omega_{\rho \mu} = - \omega_{\mu\rho}. So, you are left with \delta \mathcal{L} = - \omega^{\rho}{}_{\sigma} x^{\sigma} \ \partial_{\rho}\mathcal{L} = - \omega^{\rho}{}_{\sigma} \ \partial_{\rho} \left( x^{\sigma} \mathcal{L}\right) .

Is it different when I'm dealing with spinor fields?

The Lagrangian will still be scalar, but the transformation of the (spinor) field will no longer be \delta \psi = -\omega^{\mu}{}_{\nu}x^{\nu}\partial_{\mu}\psi . You have to account for the spin of the field by including an appropriate spin matrix \Sigma: \delta \psi_{a} = -\omega^{\mu}{}_{\nu}x^{\nu}\ \partial_{\mu}\psi_{a} + \omega_{\rho \sigma} (\Sigma^{\rho\sigma})_{a}{}^{c} \ \psi_{c} .
 
Last edited:
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samalkhaiat said:
You get the same result, if you differentiate and remember to use the fact that your field is a scalar and \omega_{\mu\nu} = -\omega_{\nu\mu}:
-\delta \mathcal{L} = \frac{\partial \mathcal{L}}{\partial \phi} \left(\omega^{\rho}{}_{\sigma} x^{\sigma} \ \partial_{\rho}\phi \right) + \frac{\partial \mathcal{L}}{\partial (\partial_{\mu} \phi ) } \left( \omega^{\rho}{}_{\sigma}x^{\sigma} \ \partial_{\rho} \partial_{\mu} \phi + \partial^{\rho}\phi \ \omega_{\rho \mu}\right) . Arrange the terms to get \delta \mathcal{L} = - \omega^{\rho}{}_{\sigma} x^{\sigma} \ \partial_{\rho}\mathcal{L} - \omega_{\rho \mu} \ \partial^{\rho} \phi \ \frac{\partial \mathcal{L}}{\partial (\partial_{\mu}\phi )} . Now, for a scalar field, you have \omega_{\rho \mu} \ \partial^{\rho} \phi \ \frac{\partial \mathcal{L}}{\partial (\partial_{\mu}\phi )} \propto \omega_{\rho \mu} \ \partial^{\rho} \phi \ \partial^{\mu}\phi = 0 , because of the \omega_{\rho \mu} = - \omega_{\mu\rho}. So, you are left with \delta \mathcal{L} = - \omega^{\rho}{}_{\sigma} x^{\sigma} \ \partial_{\rho}\mathcal{L} = - \omega^{\rho}{}_{\sigma} \ \partial_{\rho} \left( x^{\sigma} \mathcal{L}\right) .
The Lagrangian will still be scalar, but the transformation of the (spinor) field will no longer be \delta \psi = -\omega^{\mu}{}_{\nu}x^{\nu}\partial_{\mu}\psi . You have to account for the spin of the field by including an appropriate spin matrix \Sigma: \delta \psi_{a} = -\omega^{\mu}{}_{\nu}x^{\nu}\ \partial_{\mu}\psi_{a} + \omega_{\rho \sigma} (\Sigma^{\rho\sigma})_{a}{}^{c} \ \psi_{c} .

Thanks!
I got the same result!
 

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