Lorentz's Derivation: A Historical Exploration

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the historical derivation of the Lorentz transformations and how they relate to Einstein's formulation of special relativity. Participants explore the completeness of Lorentz's derivation, the assumptions involved, and the implications of light speed constancy in the context of electromagnetic waves versus massive bodies.

Discussion Character

  • Historical, Debate/contested, Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how Lorentz arrived at a similar form to Einstein's without assuming the one-way constancy of light speed.
  • Another suggests that David Bohm's book may provide insights into Lorentz's derivation.
  • A third participant references Peter Bergmann's work, highlighting a specific passage that discusses the adjustment of moving clocks and the concept of "apparent" speed of light in an imaginary system.
  • One participant asserts that Lorentz's derivation assumed a constant speed of light, but only in the context of electromagnetic waves, and did not connect this to the motion of massive bodies.
  • There is a mention of the public awareness of the differences in behavior between light and massive objects during the late 19th century, indicating the broader cultural context of the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the assumptions made in Lorentz's derivation and its implications, indicating that multiple competing views remain without a consensus on the completeness or correctness of Lorentz's approach.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the limitations of Lorentz's derivation in connecting the constant speed of light to massive bodies, as well as the historical context in which these ideas were discussed, suggesting a need for further exploration of assumptions and definitions.

yogi
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I came across a paper recently that discussed the procedure Lorentz followed in his derivation, but it was incomplete. Does anyone have a reference that reproduces his steps - what got me wondering is how could Lorentz arrive at the same form as Einstein w/o impliedly introducing the postulate of one way constancy of light speed
 
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Lorentz derivation

yogi said:
I came across a paper recently that discussed the procedure Lorentz followed in his derivation, but it was incomplete. Does anyone have a reference that reproduces his steps - what got me wondering is how could Lorentz arrive at the same form as Einstein w/o impliedly introducing the postulate of one way constancy of light speed

I think a look at
David Bohm, The Special Theory of Relativity, (Routledge Classics 1996) will help.
 
Something to be found in Peter Bergmann, "Introduction to the Theory of Relativity," on page 45-46. Goes through various steps and the last one is:

"To the student, "Find out how moving clocks in the starred (moving through the either) system must be adjusted so a signal spreading in all directions from the starred point of orgin must be adjusted to have the apparent speed c in all directions."

The word "apparent" is important in that, since it was an "imaginary" system. Lorenz himself stated, "There existed for me only this one true time. I considered my time transformation only as a heuristic working hypothesis."
 
Last edited:
The Lorentz derivation DID assume a constant speed of light. BUT it only held for electromagnetic waves. It did not make the needed connection between the then known constant speed of light and the motion of massive bodies.

Do not forget that in the last half of the 19th century even the common man on the street was aware that light (electromagnetic radiation) behaved differently from massive objects. This disconnection was the major issue of Physics in that era. Kind'a like the space program of today, it was a popular topic of the media and was discussed by laymen.
 

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