Lost Keys: Where Did I Leave Them Last?

[Moonbear]

Its actually a rather long story(more than a year long), but the short answers to your questions would be extremely, and yes, respectively. The situation is...complicated, to say the very least.

It can't be quite that complicated if you answered both questions in the affirmative. Or is it because you're just too far apart right now? Long distance relationships can be tough. But, if she's worth it and also interested, then just hang in there.

 

[motai]

It can't be quite that complicated if you answered both questions in the affirmative. Or is it because you're just too far apart right now? Long distance relationships can be tough. But, if she's worth it and also interested, then just hang in there.

ack, franznietzsche, those can be very tough to go through. I myself am in a quasi-limbo state from one of those. Still hasn't yet resolved (then again I never was offically in a relationship in the first place but there were strong feelings).

 

[franznietzsche]

It can't be quite that complicated if you answered both questions in the affirmative. Or is it because you're just too far apart right now? Long distance relationships can be tough. But, if she's worth it and also interested, then just hang in there.

Oh its horrendously complicated. I wish it was possible to make a long story short, but to do so would strip away all the little details that make everything so complicated.

But i try anyway:

I spent almost a year trying to get her to go out with me initially. The fact that she had a boyfriend at the time was of course, no deterrent, i hated the guy, so that was just icing on the cake to me.

Fast forward to mid-summer, last year: BY this time she had decided to leave him no less than four times, never actually doing it any of the time. At one point she had even become friends with one of my exes who wound trying to help her wind up with me. I actually started drinking over her. Got so depressed one night, that after not sleeping the whole time i just started drinking at 8 in the morning and didn't stop all day(oddly my parents never noticed the rum bottle that disappeared from the liquour cbainet, probably because it was one of 25 or so bottles). Eventually i just get fed up with all the talk and no action from her(of which there was the plenty. The 'i love you', so on and so forth. The whole nine yards), and walked away. I just stopped talking to her.

Life goes on, dated other people, moved away to college. when i moved me and my neighbor were seeing each other, and kept doing so after i moved. Mid-october comes around, and one day i notice on a mutual friends computer (who is at the same uni as me) that she has logged online. So i leave, walk next door to my room, start talking to her again. Why i did this, i don't really know. Well all was well and good until a few weeks ago.

She had broken up with her old boyfriend (though the asshat still keeps trying to hang around, bordering on stalking her). Started seeing other people. Then a few weeks ago, she gets drunk while talking me (i swear, those two are not related occurences, she was talking to me and someone handed her a margarita, i had nothing to do with it ) And starts getting tipsy. During the conversation, i was ranting about how all the attractive women i met seemed to be annoying ditzes with nothing to offer but their anatomy, and that i was doomed to be alone, because what i would never find what i want (the irony in this is apparent to me, but i considered her beyond my reach, so as far as i was concerned the statement was true, even thouh she existed). Well at anyrate, the conversation progresses u and she winds up telling me she broke up with her old boyfriend when i stopped seeing my neighbor for a reason. Then she brings up a statement she had made about getting me back, sometime the year before. Goes on to say that she's been trying to fix the things in herself that made her lose me the first time, so that she can try for another chance. Among these things include the fact that she still does see her ex- and he still does have some hold over her, which given the mutual hatred between me and him, would 'just be wrong' in her words.

Well, after this, all hell breaks lose in my mind.

See, before i met her, i never had any particular standards for women. They had to be attractive and pleasant company. That was about it. But after meeting her, and everything that happened, my standards changed. She's one of few people who can easily keep pace with me in conversation or agruement, and even pose a challenge at times.

As 42, put it, even if he was making fun of me:

a debating society in a skirt

Of course she's not perfect, but I've never met anyone even close to her.

 

[franznietzsche]

ack, franznietzsche, those can be very tough to go through. I myself am in a quasi-limbo state from one of those. Still hasn't yet resolved (then again I never was offically in a relationship in the first place but there were strong feelings).

I already did the long distance thing with my former neighbor. It doesn't bug me that much, because I'm not real huge on human interaction in general anyway, so having time to myself doesn't bother me, but I'm far less optimistic about the ability for them to actually work than i used to be. And by far less, i mean there is no optimism left on the subject.

 

[Moonbear]

franz, it sounds like she's finally noticed you! Well, her ex-boyfriend still hanging around is a problem. I suggest you tell her you're going to take things very slowly until you're certain he's out of the picture given her history of saying she'd break up with him and then not and still having him linger around even now. Sometimes people admit things when drunk they'd be too inhibited to admit while sober. Just make sure she doesn't only have feelings for you when she's drunk.

No wonder you've been in such a good mood this weekend! Good luck!

 

[motai]

I spent almost a year trying to get her to go out with me initially. The fact that she had a boyfriend at the time was of course, no deterrent, i hated the guy, so that was just icing on the cake to me.

Had a variation of this happen to me before.

During the conversation, i was ranting about how all the attractive women i met seemed to be annoying ditzes with nothing to offer but their anatomy, and that i was doomed to be alone, because what i would never find what i want

Yeah, know exactly what you mean. There are hundreds a stones throw from the school. They are all mean too.

She's one of few people who can easily keep pace with me in conversation or agruement, and even pose a challenge at times.
Of course she's not perfect, but I've never met anyone even close to her.

It is difficult when a girl is found that is like this only to find out that they have a boyfriend or something. In my experiences, that is exactly what happened, and I never met anyone else like that. A girl who actually would listen to me and wasn't so banal like the others, one who is both intelligent (way smarter than me in some areas too) yet not self-infatuated. Never met anyone like that in my life, only to figure out she was committed. Hard times. Still haven't quite recovered because all of the girls in my general area are complete ditzes who I cannot relate with.

As Chekhov says.. "Black is your bread. Black are your days."
*sighs*

 

[The_Professional]

Then she brings up a statement she had made about getting me back, sometime the year before. Goes on to say that she's been trying to fix the things in herself that made her lose me the first time, so that she can try for another chance. Among these things include the fact that she still does see her ex- and he still does have some hold over her, which given the mutual hatred between me and him, would 'just be wrong' in her words.
.

The bottomline: She's still seeing her ex = they're still seeing each other. Look at her actions.

I'm sorry dude but I'll let this one go. But that's just me..

 

[franznietzsche]

franz, it sounds like she's finally noticed you!

I am so confused. See, this is what happens when i try to shorten things and leave out important details. Or maybe I'm just crazy and what you're saying actually makes perfect sense.

Its not like she didn't notice me before. If she had never noticed me before, this situation couldn't exist.

She said she loved me before, i don't think that qualifies as not noticing me...

Well, her ex-boyfriend still hanging around is a problem. I suggest you tell her you're going to take things very slowly until you're certain he's out of the picture given her history of saying she'd break up with him and then not and still having him linger around even now.

As far as i can see, things aren't going to be taken anywhere anytime soon.

1) being 250 miles apart
2) Her idea of timely progress is not 'anytime soon'. I know her well enough to know that. For all i know, she could be thinking more towards, four years from now after graduation round II.

Sometimes people admit things when drunk they'd be too inhibited to admit while sober.

Oh, she definitely would not have said this sober. Mainly because, as we know each other very well (i think our total hours of conversation would easily top 500 hours in the past year,of actuall verbal conversations. IM conversations, email, only god knows. Over 1000, maybe more. For the non-mathematical that's about the equivalent of talking to someone for 45 days nonstop.), she knows that telling me that would basically drive me insane. As it is more or less doing. See before, believing that everything from before was over, and we would just be friends i was fine, there was nothing to feed my imagination. Now...well, my mind is working in overdrive, running through every possible scenario...i can't get her out of my head, i can't stop thinking about her. About us. Its driving me insane. As i said, she stole my mind.

Just make sure she doesn't only have feelings for you when she's drunk.

I know what her feelings are. But as I've learned, the question is whether or not those ever result in action. Wondering about that makes me know how someone facing death, suddenly wondering, with very real immediacy if there is a god, must feel.

No wonder you've been in such a good mood this weekend! Good luck!

This is a good mood? This has been one of my worse melancholies in months. Or maybe I'm insane and when i feel down and depressed i'ma ctually acting ecstatic, and vice versa.

Have i mentioned that i don't trust my mind or perceptions of reality much anymore?

 

[franznietzsche]

The bottomline: She's still seeing her ex = they're still seeing each other. Look at her actions.

I'm sorry dude but I'll let this one go. But that's just me..

No, still seeing her ex, means she was dating a guy on her floor and the ex was harassing her about it. And she put up with it.

And besides, i have independent verification that she is not dating the guy, my best friend goes to the same school and is friends with her.

 

[The_Professional]

Do you still want to win her heart? make her miss you. Slowly withdraw

 

[franznietzsche]

Do you still want to win her heart? make her miss you. Slowly withdraw

Little tips like that are not what i need, believe me, I've heard, used and repeated almost all of them. I know all the right things to do. Thats not the problem. Remember in this situation, she's comes out says she's trying to get me back. The thing tormenting is whether that desire of hers will ever translate into action. Because no matter what i do, that is out of my control. Any other woman, i would say that it would be my job to ensure that she wants it badly enough to do something, but with her, even then its up in the air. Like i said, she's a challenge. My mind kicks into machiavellian mode, and it just doesn't work on her. I've never had that happen before. Ever.

It was kinda funny, she was the first girl i ever pursued who was not single at the time, and i walked into simply expecting her to just walk away from him, to me. I had never had trouble with women before. I don't know if that's because I'm just that good, or because of the kinds of women i hade gone after, but either way, i just sort of expected things to fall into place, just by me walking into the room. It never occurred to me it could be difficult. Boy, was I in for a wake up call.

 

[Moonbear]

I am so confused. See, this is what happens when i try to shorten things and leave out important details. Or maybe I'm just crazy and what you're saying actually makes perfect sense.

Its not like she didn't notice me before. If she had never noticed me before, this situation couldn't exist.

She said she loved me before, i don't think that qualifies as not noticing me...

Yeah, but if she had a boyfriend she wouldn't leave before, she hadn't really NOTICED noticed you. She knew you existed, I don't think she could have really meant it that she loved you yet, but it's not the same as finally leaving her other boyfriend and realizing YOU'RE the one she's interested in.

As far as i can see, things aren't going to be taken anywhere anytime soon.

1) being 250 miles apart
2) Her idea of timely progress is not 'anytime soon'. I know her well enough to know that. For all i know, she could be thinking more towards, four years from now after graduation round II.

Well, the distance will slow things, but you need to be proactive. Call her, plan some weekend trips to see her, etc. As for the timely progress thing, I guess that's what will really tell you how serious she is. If she really wants you, she'll step up the pace. If she keeps dragging her feet, then maybe she's not going to be as interested.

I know what her feelings are. But as I've learned, the question is whether or not those ever result in action. Wondering about that makes me know how someone facing death, suddenly wondering, with very real immediacy if there is a god, must feel.

Well, then you need to be the one to take action. (I do think you need to resurrect that Girl Trouble thread...this is getting complicated...lol).

This is a good mood? This has been one of my worse melancholies in months. Or maybe I'm insane and when i feel down and depressed i'ma ctually acting ecstatic, and vice versa.

Well, you're not showing it. Maybe it's because you have hope of something happening, or maybe you're right, you're just more funny when you're insane.

Have i mentioned that i don't trust my mind or perceptions of reality much anymore?

Are you still sure true love doesn't exist? You sound like you're dangerously close to discovering it. *sniffle* Our little franz is getting so grown up. *sniffle*

 

[The_Professional]

Little tips like that are not what i need, believe me, I've heard, used and repeated almost all of them. I know all the right things to do. Thats not the problem.

I can provide a counter-argument to everything you posted. But you're not going to like what I'm going to say, I'm tired etc..etc..

Anyway, Good luck

 

[Moonbear]

It was kinda funny, she was the first girl i ever pursued who was not single at the time, and i walked into simply expecting her to just walk away from him, to me. I had never had trouble with women before. I don't know if that's because I'm just that good, or because of the kinds of women i hade gone after, but either way, i just sort of expected things to fall into place, just by me walking into the room. It never occurred to me it could be difficult. Boy, was I in for a wake up call.

Just make sure it's really her you want, and not just the thrill of the chase that has you excited.

 

[franznietzsche]

Well, the distance will slow things, but you need to be proactive. Call her, plan some weekend trips to see her, etc. As for the timely progress thing, I guess that's what will really tell you how serious she is. If she really wants you, she'll step up the pace. If she keeps dragging her feet, then maybe she's not going to be as interested.

Thats not the biggest issue. If things are going to happen, they'll happen regardless of distance. It just adds more uncertainty to the situation is all.

Well, then you need to be the one to take action. (I do think you need to resurrect that Girl Trouble thread...this is getting complicated...lol).

I think i may have mentioned her in that thread once or twice.

Again, I don't see what i can do. Its not like I'm a neo-phyte who needs advice on how to win a girl over. I've never had trouble with that. Well except for her.

Well, you're not showing it. Maybe it's because you have hope of something happening, or maybe you're right, you're just more funny when you're insane.

I'm pretty sure its the latter. Haven't you noticed all the frowing faces?

Are you still sure true love doesn't exist? You sound like you're dangerously close to discovering it. *sniffle* Our little franz is getting so grown up. *sniffle*

Don't get ahead of yourself now. I may be completely in love with her, but that doesn't change anything i ever said. How i feel about her has not changed in the past six months at any point, bursts of anger aside.

 

[franznietzsche]

Just make sure it's really her you want, and not just the thrill of the chase that has you excited.

The whole point of finding someone that is my equal is that the chase is never ending, because i can't gain control.

Its a will to power--my natural tendency is to try to be in control of everything around me. The problem is, being in control is boring. I don't want to be in control, i want to be challenged.

 

[Moonbear]

Again, I don't see what i can do. Its not like I'm a neo-phyte who needs advice on how to win a girl over. I've never had trouble with that. Well except for her.

But, as you pointed out, she's not like those other girls. The funny thing is, from everything you described, it sounds like you've already won her over. So, the hang up is that she thinks there's some things about herself she needs to "fix" before she'll date you? Have you told her you like her just the way she is, and she doesn't need to fix anything? Other than that, I'm a bit baffled about why you aren't both already dating. Maybe you are and you just don't know it yet...you know how sometimes a really great friendship somehow just turns into dating and nobody remembers how it happened?

 

[franznietzsche]

So, the hang up is that she thinks there's some things about herself she needs to "fix" before she'll date you? Have you told her you like her just the way she is, and she doesn't need to fix anything?

From a perfectly idealistic standpoint, yes i could say that, insofar that i would date her without her changing anything.

But both her and i know that as things are, she has certain habits that would make relationship at distance simply not feasible.

There's also the issue of her ex. As long as she's even talking to him, dating me would unleash one hell of a firestorm. Well, not just him, most of his friends too. And is something neither her nor I wants to deal with.

Other than that, I'm a bit baffled about why you aren't both already dating.

So are most of the people we knew in high school. A good chunk of them thought it was a foregone conclusion a full year ago. Of course, at that time, so did i. By ten months ago i think the only person who had not yet caught on was her boyfriend.

Maybe you are and you just don't know it yet...you know how sometimes a really great friendship somehow just turns into dating and nobody remembers how it happened?

No i don't actually. This would be about as close to that as possible though.

If i had to guess, i would say that her idea of 'timely action' would either be this summer, another 3 months away, or 'graduation round 2' some 3 1/2 years from now. I know that she is definitely not thinking in the immediate short term.

 

[Moonbear]

Well, maybe waiting for summer would be best, when you're both back home and can see each other regularly without her ex lurking about. It'll make the long-distance part in the next school year easier if you've had time to date without the distance.

I've had the friend turn into boyfriend thing happen, so it really can turn out that way. We hung out a lot, etc., went the same party and somehow ended up going from joking around to kissing by the end of the party. Though, the reason that didn't work out is the same reason you need to be careful with this woman...I wasn't quite over another guy yet. Unfortunately, ending the relationship also ended the friendship (dating a friend can be risky like that...not much better than 50/50 odds you'll come out of a break-up still friends). So, it's worth it to give her the time to be sure things are totally done and cleaned up with the ex before you take the next step. Summer should be good timing.

 

[franznietzsche]

Summer would be what I'm hoping. But knowing her, i have the sneaking suspicion the latter is more likely. Though that may just be my inner pessimist.