Lower Force Impact on Child Safety with American Inventor Car Seat

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter onestarburns
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the safety implications of a car seat design featured on the show "American Inventor." Participants explore the potential effects of modifying the car seat's mass and its swinging mechanism on child safety during car accidents. The conversation includes theoretical considerations, practical concerns, and speculative ideas regarding the design and functionality of the car seat.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that increasing the mass of the car seat could reduce acceleration (a) and, consequently, the force (F) experienced by a child during an impact.
  • Another participant counters that the deceleration of the car seat is tied to the overall system of the car, implying that all components will decelerate at the same rate during an accident.
  • Concerns are raised about the swinging mechanism of the car seat, with one participant arguing that it could pose additional risks to the child during an impact.
  • Some participants express skepticism about the feasibility of the design, questioning whether it could be perfected and whether adding mass would be practical.
  • There are discussions about the potential for rotational forces acting on the child due to the swinging motion, with some participants unsure about how this would affect safety.
  • One participant proposes a spring system to dampen deceleration, suggesting it could improve safety compared to a swinging mechanism.
  • Another participant highlights the complexity of the forces involved, noting that both linear deceleration and rotational forces would affect the child in a crash scenario.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of opinions, with no consensus reached on the effectiveness or safety of the proposed car seat design. Some agree that the concept has flaws, while others believe it could be refined. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of mass and the swinging mechanism on child safety.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge their varying levels of expertise, with some being first-year college students. The discussion includes speculative ideas and assumptions about the physics involved, which are not fully explored or resolved.

onestarburns
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i trust you have all seen american inventor, and if not go look at the car seat on there because that is what this has to do with


its bad, because the force has to go somwhere and probably it will hurt the child in the long run, but what if we could lower the amoung of force

consider the following


f= ma

a= f/m

my thought... add more weight, (m), and by adding more weight you will directly reduce A, and A will directly impact F.
my father is not so sure (mechanical engineer as well) he says there are more than one system, but even effecting one system you impact the second.
thoughts?


--- first year college so I am not 100% content.
 
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The deceleration of the car seat does not depend on the mass of the car seat, it is tied into a bigger system (the car itself); therefore, EVERYTHING inside the overall system (the car) will decelerate at the same rate as the car is suddenly impacted during the car accident.
 
but I am concentrating on the force acting on the car seat. not sure if you have seen the seat but it swings. if not google immage it, because on impact it flips. were worried about what will happen to all that force upon impact of the collision. i believe that the best way to decrease force on the car seat will be to add more weight.
 
The car seat swings?

Based on your description, don't put too much worry into it, that sounds like something that would never get approved by the road safety association.

Trust me, you do NOT want a car seat swinging around the inside cabin of the car during an impact, it will kill the child.
 
lol i agree, unless it can be perfected, and this guy is working on perfecting it. intuitively this sounds like a wonderful idea, but we all agree that it is flawed. i feel it can be perfected with somthing as simple as more mass.
am i wrong?
im not worried about if it will be aproved, its just killing me mentaly. lol you know the feeling.
 
onestarburns said:
lol i agree, unless it can be perfected, and this guy is working on perfecting it. intuitively this sounds like a wonderful idea, but we all agree that it is flawed. i feel it can be perfected with somthing as simple as more mass.
am i wrong?
im not worried about if it will be aproved, its just killing me mentaly. lol you know the feeling.


:bugeye: :eek: How can you say 'intuitively' that a car seat that swings around with a child in it by some no-name inventor is a 'wonderful idea'?

Don't you think the car seat manufacturers that pour millions of dollars into research would have thought about that by now?

Think about your statement. You want to add more mass? You are an engineering student. Who is going to use this car seat? A woman is. You have to design this car seat so that she can carry it and her child around. Unless you increase the weight of the car seay by orders of magnitude the change in mass will be insignificant. Why would you want to propose such an idea?

I saw 5 min of that show. The people had inventions that were flat out laughable. :rolleyes:
 
no i agree it would be bulky, but intuitively the science makes sense. instead of having to worry about the childs head smashing against somthing, the seat acts as a mothers womb and spins. look I am not saying this seat will ever see the light of day, I am more interested on what it would take to work.
as far as physics goes
 
Cyrus, it swings about a fixed axis, I think.

http://www.makezine.com/blog/img413_572.jpg

Instead of a linear deceleration, the baby is going to feel g-forces from the swinging. I'm not sure I get exactly how this works, simply by looking at the picture. Are there rotational dampers on it ?
 
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ya the inventions on the show are quite funny, but it was interesting to watch to see what would come up.
 
  • #10
:smile:They suck that poor kid into a flower pot! :smile:


So let me get this striaght, now the poor child will be subjected to a Rotation (centripetal acceleration) AND a linear deceleration during the accidet. :rolleyes:

The poor kid will black out when that thing starts swinging and possibly get bloodshot eyes.
 
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  • #11
keeping in mind that i am a still in my first year

more mass wouldn't lower the damages from this?
 
  • #12
What difference does mass make when it is tied to the car itself? The entire system (car, people, baby, carseat) will all decelerate together at the same rate because the people are 'tied down' to the car by restraints.

You can (i) decelerate at the same rate as the car, or (ii) not wear a seatbelt and fly out the windsheld at a different rate.
 
  • #13
in my mind I am thinking if secured properly, this should (with the proper math) be able to help.
i do trust your judgement, I am just wishing i could understand it. maybe when i actualy take physics next semester ill get a better idea, but right now I am just running off of information i have gathered online
 
  • #14
If I were going to design a car seat for a baby, I would have a spring system so that when the car decelerates, the springs dampen out the sudden deceleration by increase the time it takes before the baby comes to a stop, because now the baby is not fixed to the car (he and his seat are floating). I would not recommend swinging a baby around an axis, fixed or not.

In any event, just put the baby on the dashboard, its good for the little guy. Cup holders are good places to keep them too. :smile:
 
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  • #15
Gokul43201 said:
Cyrus, it swings about a fixed axis, I think.

http://www.makezine.com/blog/img413_572.jpg

Instead of a linear deceleration, the baby is going to feel g-forces from the swinging. I'm not sure I get exactly how this works, simply by looking at the picture. Are there rotational dampers on it ?


Huh? This poor kid is moving forward with the car. Rotation or not, he has to decelerate in the forward direction. If this thing starts rotating, that does not mean he won't have a component of deceleration in the forward direction. Actually he will have a deceleration force in the forward direction in addition to a force due to induced rotatation. (However the hell that's possible)

*If this were an ideal case, he would not even rotate in the first place! What would cause his rotation due to a linear deceleration? Is the inventor going to put the COM of the baby different from that of the fixed axis of rotation, so that the baby can barf due to road perturbations all along the way?

This idea is as stupid as the show. :rolleyes:
 
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  • #16
The linear deceleration is reduced by the horizontal component of the swing (during the first half of the swing).
 
  • #17
I do not follow you. :confused:
 
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  • #18
Look at the limiting case. When the car stops instantaneously, the seat swings forward. The car frame had an infinite deceleration, the baby had a large, but finite deceleration.

In reality, the swinging seat might help in the most catastrophic head-on cases, but only make things worse for minor events.
 

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