Man tries to rob woman in wheel chair

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A recent incident in New York involved Margaret Johnson, a 56-year-old woman in a wheelchair, who shot a mugger attempting to steal her necklace. The mugger was shot in the elbow, prompting discussions about self-defense laws and the appropriateness of using lethal force in such situations. Many participants debated whether her response was justified, considering the nature of the crime and her physical limitations. Some argued that shooting was excessive for a minor theft, while others emphasized the unpredictability of violent encounters and the need for self-defense. The conversation also touched on the legal implications of self-defense, particularly regarding the necessity and proportionality of force used. Comparisons were made to another case in Oregon where a nurse defended herself against an intruder, highlighting varying perspectives on self-defense tactics. Overall, the discussion reflected a complex interplay of legal, moral, and personal responsibility considerations in self-defense scenarios.
  • #31
In the several self defense firearm courses I've taken in the past, it has been stated that shooting someone is only legal if there is a very strong indication that they will kill you... Anyway, if I were to ever get into a bad situation later in my life, I would not pull my gun and shoot until there is no other possible way out of the situation... If that happens, shoot to kill... Shooting someone in the leg or arm is BS. If the person is on certain drugs, the bastard probably won't even feel anything. If someone was about to kill you or someone around you and you shot them in the leg and it stopped them, then you're lucky. If someone can kill you, and you shoot them in the leg, they would all of a sudden have plenty more motivation to kill you without thought.

EDIT: Oh, in general situations, you should usually shoot twice in the chest rapidly and if the ***** is still coming at you or even still alive, concentrate for an instant and between the eyes...
 
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  • #32
What if he's just stressed out and looking for money?

donate plasma, pawn your dvd collection or other valuables, or get another job. If you really must have money today, then go to a check advance establishment. You could go beg for money if you must.

The point is, have some personal responsibility.. take responsibility for your situation and do something constructive to get out of it. If you make the wrong choice then you'll face the consequences for your actions. If that includes losing your life, you have nobody to blame but yourself.

{ edited for grammar :-p }
 
  • #33
shmoe said:
I think people who suggest guns should be used for disabling people by shooting their arms, legs, feet, or cigarettes out of their mouths watch too much tv.
She was probably going for his funny bone!

"I never thought I would have to use my gun on a person," said Margaret Johnson, who has at least a dozen shooting trophies in her apartment and once shot a hole in a quarter from 30 feet away.

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/451222p-379660c.html

You can win shooting trophies in your apartment, and shoot holes in quarters? :bugeye: What can I say? The Daily News was the only source carrying a story different from the short one in the OP.
 
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  • #34
Math Is Hard said:
Only if you've got faster reflexes and the attacker can't get the gun away from you.

Not the victim's problem.

They change really fast when you put a bullet in them.

Not many criminals anyway.

Fair enough. We'll require all victims of violent crimes to inquire of the predator if they are only seeking to take our valuables or if they intend to do us bodily harm. Somewhat problematic if someone is pulling a necklace off your neck and you're choking at the time but perhaps sign language could be adopted.
Not if I am on the jury.

I realize my views on this are extreme but I find it very upsetting when people prey on the "defenseless", no matter what their reasons. And I agree with Monique that it was probably too risky a move if there were any innocent bystanders in sight.
Bravo MIH! I agree 110%.!
 
  • #35
ptabor said:
The point is, have some personal responsibility.. take responsibility for your situation and do something constructive to get out of it. If you make the wrong choice then you'll face the consequences for your actions. If that includes losing your life, you have nobody to blame but yourself.

{ edited for grammar :-p }

I totally disagree.

People make mistakes and minor theft charges isn't worth a death penalty. That's just pathetic.

So, um... if you ever make a minor tax problem, I'll get the gun.
 
  • #36
Math Is Hard said:
Only if you've got faster reflexes and the attacker can't get the gun away from you.

Well, then that's no reason to shoot. If you do not know yet. Simply ask the "criminal" to step away, if he doesn't within like 2 seconds, you can shoot because NOW you're at risk.

From all your comments, everything you said is all in your head and can't be justified. That's just as bad as commiting an unjustified crime.

Not the victim's problem.

It never was. I'm just saying that people have lives. Criminals are people too, so don't go around shooting people because of simple fear that's in your own head. That's just as irresponsible as whatever the criminal is doing. Minor theft charges. That's hardcore. I'm glad I'm in Canada where we give people a chance.

Go USA. :rolleyes:

Let me guess. He's an "evil-doer".

They change really fast when you put a bullet in them.

The criminal had the ability to disable her. No doubt about that, so that's already proof that he didn't intend to injure or harm, so where is the FEAR coming from? It's in YOUR head.

Not many criminals anyway.

If you call a criminal someone committing minor theft charges, you have a lot to learn. People make mistakes. IT'S FREAKING MINOR THEFT CHARGES! Get over yourself.

Fair enough. We'll require all victims of violent crimes to inquire of the predator if they are only seeking to take our valuables or if they intend to do us bodily harm. Somewhat problematic if someone is pulling a necklace off your neck and you're choking at the time but perhaps sign language could be adopted.

I didn't see any choking. And that's what I meant from what I said earlier. He was totally capable of disabling her, but chose not to. That's evidence that he didn't intend to harm. Think.

Not if I am on the jury.

You wouldn't be on the jury. They have rational people on the board only.

I realize my views on this are extreme but I find it very upsetting when people prey on the "defenseless", no matter what their reasons. And I agree with Monique that it was probably too risky a move if there were any innocent bystanders in sight.

Well, that's something you need to work on yourself. Maybe you feel like a defenseless person for some reason. Because if you do, then you should work on that.
 
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  • #37
If she'd have missed, it would've been pretty easy to grab the gun off an old lady in a wheelchair, I suspect.

Then we have a mugger with a gun.

Stupid gun culture.
 
  • #38
talk about guilty till proven innocent:

Woman in Wheelchair Shoots Alleged Mugger
 
  • #39
J77 said:
If she'd have missed, it would've been pretty easy to grab the gun off an old lady in a wheelchair, I suspect.

Then we have a mugger with a gun.

Stupid gun culture.

Don't blame me. Blame those who want guns. (US)
 
  • #40
JasonRox said:
Don't blame me. Blame those who want guns. (US)
I agree with your arguments.
 
  • #41
The guy snatched her chain and was trying to make a getaway with it. The woman had a gun and shot him.

Why didn't she get charged then? 'Cause there's no way the DA can find a jury that'll convict a handicapped person who had been robbed by someone with very likely, a shady history. It's too easy for her to say she felt threatened and was acting in self defence. It's really hard to prove that to be a lie (not saying it is one; just that it costs time and money and takes a good bit of luck), and it looks really "bad" to attack the credibility of a disabled person. Not going to win that case in this country!
 
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  • #42
If she'd have missed, it would've been pretty easy to grab the gun off an old lady in a wheelchair, I suspect.

Then we have a mugger with a gun.
Oh my god, he might take her necklace for sure now! :smile:
 
  • #43
Gokul43201 said:
The guy snatched her chain and was trying to make a getaway with it. The woman had a gun and shot him.

The link you gave before doesn't seem to work now, but here it is from http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache...ot&hl=en&gl=ca&ct=clnk&cd=2&client=firefox-a"

...He grabbed the retired bus driver around the neck, causing her MTA medallion to pop from her necklace and fall to the ground, she said.

She pulled out her gun and shot him in the elbow, sending him running like a wounded duck...

Makes it sound a little more frightening for her than shooting someone who was trying to run away with her necklace.

Who knows how threatened she felt? Who knows if all she had to worry about was just a necklace being stolen? I think it's completely ridiculous to try to condemn her for shooting someone who was "just trying to rob her" when we have pretty much no idea at all what happened apart from some scant news reports, but that might just be me. (I'm not at all pro gun in any way, and am grateful to live in a place that I've never felt the need to carry any kind of weapon)
 
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  • #44
shmoe said:
Makes it sound a little more frightening for her than shooting someone who was trying to run away with her necklace.
Sure it does. But then, even if you did shoot someone because you didn't want him running away with your MTA medallion, what would you say to the press?

Who knows how threatened she felt? Who knows if all she had to worry about was just a necklace being stolen? I think it's completely ridiculous to try to condemn her for shooting someone who was "just trying to rob her" when we have pretty much no idea at all what happened apart from some scant news reports, but that might just be me.
I wasn't condemning her. I was being close to neutral...with a wee dash of skepticism!
 
  • #45
Gokul43201 said:
The guy snatched her chain and was trying to make a getaway with it. The woman had a gun and shot him.

Why didn't she get charged then? 'Cause there's no way the DA can find a jury that'll convict a handicapped person who had been robbed by someone with very likely, a shady history. It's too easy for her to say she felt threatened and was acting in self defence. It's really hard to prove that to be a lie (not saying it is one; just that it costs time and money and takes a good bit of luck), and it looks really "bad" to attack the credibility of a disabled person. Not going to win that case in this country!

I'm disabled and I have no problems people questioning me or attacking my credibility.
 
  • #46
JasonRox said:
If you call a criminal someone committing minor theft charges, you have a lot to learn. People make mistakes. IT'S FREAKING MINOR THEFT CHARGES! Get over yourself.
Of course they are a criminal, they're stealing. It was also assault. This was no "mistake". This person made a deliberate decision to commit a crime. There is no excuse for a crime like this. Attacking this woman just shows what kind of slime ball this guy is.