Understanding the Manipulation of Natural Logarithms

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the manipulation of natural logarithms, specifically examining the equality involving logarithmic expressions. Participants explore the algebraic identities and properties of logarithms as they relate to a problem from a textbook, with a focus on verifying the equality through algebraic manipulation.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the validity of the logarithmic equality and seeks clarification on its truth.
  • Another participant suggests that the equality can be verified by using properties of logarithms to transform the expressions into a form that can be compared.
  • A participant indicates that the problem is part of a textbook exercise and expresses difficulty in seeing the algebraic identity needed to prove the equality.
  • Several participants reiterate the laws of logarithms as a basis for the discussion, emphasizing the need to manipulate the expressions correctly.
  • One participant proposes a specific approach to demonstrate the equality by simplifying the left side of the equation.
  • Another participant expresses gratitude for the simplification method suggested, indicating a realization of its simplicity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the properties of logarithms and the approach to verifying the equality, but there is no consensus on the specific steps needed to complete the proof, as some express uncertainty about the algebraic manipulation involved.

Contextual Notes

Some participants mention specific algebraic identities and properties of logarithms, but there are unresolved steps in the manipulation process that could affect the outcome of the discussion.

Sturk200
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How is it true that:

Log[L+(Z^2+L^2)^(1/2)] - Log[-L+(Z^2+L^2)^(1/2)] = 2{Log[L+(Z^2+L^2)^(1/2)] - Log[Z]}

?
 
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Is this homework?

The equality is not very complicated to check. Use the properties of logarithms to get to the form log(x) = log(y), and then check if x = y.
 
DrClaude said:
Is this homework?

The equality is not very complicated to check. Use the properties of logarithms to get to the form log(x) = log(y), and then check if x = y.

Not homework, but part of a textbook problem that I'm using to study. I can get as far as the form log(x) = log(y) by turning the differences into quotients and the multiplicative prefactor on the right into an exponent. I guess I'm having trouble with the easiest part, seeing the algebraic identity.
 
Sturk200 said:
How is it true that:

Log[L+(Z^2+L^2)^(1/2)] - Log[-L+(Z^2+L^2)^(1/2)] = 2{Log[L+(Z^2+L^2)^(1/2)] - Log[Z]}

?
Is your equation:

##log\; [L + \sqrt{(Z^2 + L^2)}] -log\; [-L + \sqrt{(Z^2 + L^2)}]=2log\; [L + \sqrt{(Z^2 + L^2)}] - log (Z)## ?

The Laws of Logarithms are:

##log\; (a) - log\; (b) = log\;(\frac{a}{b}) ##

##log\; (a+b) - log\; (a-b) = log\;(\frac{a+b}{a-b}) ##

##log\;(a^b) = b\;log\;(a)##

##log\;[(a+b)^c]=c\;log\;(a+b)##
 
SteamKing said:
Is your equation:

##log\; [L + \sqrt{(Z^2 + L^2)}] -log\; [-L + \sqrt{(Z^2 + L^2)}]=2log\; [L + \sqrt{(Z^2 + L^2)}] - log (Z)## ?

The Laws of Logarithms are:

##log\; (a) - log\; (b) = log\;(\frac{a}{b}) ##

##log\; (a+b) - log\; (a-b) = log\;(\frac{a+b}{a-b}) ##

##log\;(a^b) = b\;log\;(a)##

##log\;[(a+b)^c]=c\;log\;(a+b)##

Thanks for your reply. Yes, I understand this much. So the problem becomes showing that

(L + Sqrt[Z^2 + L^2])/(-L + Sqrt[Z^2 + L^2]) = [(L + Sqrt[Z^2 + L^2])/Z]^2

Maybe this is me being dumb, but I don't know how to get from the left side to the right side.
 
Sturk200 said:
Thanks for your reply. Yes, I understand this much. So the problem becomes showing that

(L + Sqrt[Z^2 + L^2])/(-L + Sqrt[Z^2 + L^2]) = [(L + Sqrt[Z^2 + L^2])/Z]^2

Maybe this is me being dumb, but I don't know how to get from the left side to the right side.
If you start from the left side, simply multiply by ##(L+\sqrt{Z^2+L^2})/(L+\sqrt{Z^2+L^2})##. This is the same trick as when we multiply by conjugates of complex numbers to get rid of a term (a+ib) in the denominator.
 
nrqed said:
If you start from the left side, simply multiply by ##(L+\sqrt{Z^2+L^2})/(L+\sqrt{Z^2+L^2})##. This is the same trick as when we multiply by conjugates of complex numbers to get rid of a term (a+ib) in the denominator.

My lord, that is simple. Thank you.
 

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