Map a one dimensional random walk to a two-state paramagnet

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around mapping a one-dimensional random walk to a two-state paramagnet, specifically focusing on expressing the number of journeys of N steps that end at a specific position and determining the probability of ending at that position.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Problem interpretation, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the relationship between random walks and two-state paramagnets, exploring how to express variables from the random walk in terms of those for the paramagnet. There are attempts to derive expressions using factorials and Gaussian functions, with some participants questioning how to relate the variables N, Rδ, and the distance traveled.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively exploring different interpretations of the problem and attempting to connect their understanding of random walks with the properties of a two-state paramagnet. Some guidance has been offered regarding the use of multiplicity and Gaussian functions, but there is no explicit consensus on the correct approach or final expressions.

Contextual Notes

There are indications of uncertainty regarding the definitions of certain variables (R and δ) and how they relate to the random walk setup. Participants are also navigating the constraints of homework rules and the need to derive expressions without providing complete solutions.

Kitty123
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1. The question asks us to map a one dimensional random walk to a two state paramagnet and then write an expression for the number of journeys of N steps which end up at r=Rdelta.

Then we are asked to find an expression for the probability that N steps will end up at r.

2. N!/((N-Up)!(N-down)!)
The average is N/2

e^(-2x^2/N)
Probability= multiplicity(N)/multiplicity(all)

3. Other than saying that x=r=Rdelta and substituting that into my Gaussian I am really unsure of how to even begin this.

I attached a picture of the question. It’s #4
 

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Kitty123 said:
unsure of how to even begin this.
The first thing it asks for is a verbal description of the mapping. Given a random walk, how might you map that to a microstate?
 
I understand the first part. A random walk is like a two state paramagnet because for every spin up or spin down you could go left or right.

After looking back over my notes I think I plug-in delta^2/(2tau)*t for x^2... also in light of the second part of the question plugging this in for x^2 would allow me to show that r has a proportional dependence on sqrt(Dt) where D=delta^2/tau.

I have no idea if this is correct... I think I’m on the right track !
 
Kitty123 said:
After looking back over my notes I think I plug-in delta^2/(2tau)*t for x^2... also in light of the second part of the question plugging this in for x^2 would allow me to show that r has a proportional dependence on sqrt(Dt) where D=delta^2/tau.
Since the question asks for an expression in terms of N and Rδ, and I do not know how you are relating those to the variables you mention above, I am unable to comment on that.
I believe it is asking you to use N and Rδ somehow to replace N-up, N-down in the equation you quoted:
Kitty123 said:
N!/((N-Up)!(N-down)!)
 
haruspex said:
Since the question asks for an expression in terms of N and Rδ, and I do not know how you are relating those to the variables you mention above, I am unable to comment on that.
I believe it is asking you to use N and Rδ somehow to replace N-up, N-down in the equation you quoted:

I am suppose to express the variables from the random walk in terms of the variables for the paramagnet. I know that r= total distance traveled, delta= the change in placement, and R must be the total steps taken over N/2 since total steps over N/2* delta would give me a final distance traveled. Some how I am suppose to be able to replace the x in my Gaussian with these other variables.
 
Kitty123 said:
I know that r= total distance traveled
No, it is clear that r is the finishing position of the walk, i.e. the displacement. The total distance walked is the number of steps, N.
I am unclear what R and δ are, but we are given r=Rδ, so maybe I don't need to know.
It does not seem to me that this part, an expression for the number of journeys, is asking for a Gaussian. It does not mention approximation. I would answer using factorials.
 
haruspex said:
No, it is clear that r is the finishing position of the walk, i.e. the displacement. The total distance walked is the number of steps, N.
I am unclear what R and δ are, but we are given r=Rδ, so maybe I don't need to know.
It does not seem to me that this part, an expression for the number of journeys, is asking for a Gaussian. It does not mention approximation. I would answer using factorials.
Ok! That makes sense. The second part asks us to use the given Gaussian to calculate the probability, and I was assuming I needed to do that for part a... if I am just plugging things into a multiplicity function for part a that makes sense! Thank you.
 
OK. So if I am supposed to use a multiplicity like you said... but I am also supposed to map this onto a two state paramagnet which I solved in the previous problem... then I can use the factorial equation that I gave. In the state paramagnet that I solved I found that N-spin up = (N/2+x) where X is the excess over N/2. This x, for this walk, is the excess of steps over N/2. This means that for a random walk I have to take into account two times step length and position... which means x= r/2l. I can plug that expression into the factorial and I can use that to replace the x in the Gaussian to solve part b!
 
Kitty123 said:
OK. So if I am supposed to use a multiplicity like you said... but I am also supposed to map this onto a two state paramagnet which I solved in the previous problem... then I can use the factorial equation that I gave. In the state paramagnet that I solved I found that N-spin up = (N/2+x) where X is the excess over N/2. This x, for this walk, is the excess of steps over N/2. This means that for a random walk I have to take into account two times step length and position... which means x= r/2l. I can plug that expression into the factorial and I can use that to replace the x in the Gaussian to solve part b!
Looks right.
 
  • #10
haruspex said:
Looks right.
☺️
 
  • #11
Ok... so now I need to use the Gaussian to write the probability of arriving at r. Probability is multiplicity(n)/multiplicity(all). I am assuming my Gaussian e^-r^2/2Nl (the Gaussian with x^2 replaced) is the numerator in my probability since this is the multiplicity function for arriving at r. The multiplicity of arriving anywhere should be the original Gaussian e^-2x/N, right?
 
  • #12
Kitty123 said:
Ok... so now I need to use the Gaussian to write the probability of arriving at r. Probability is multiplicity(n)/multiplicity(all). I am assuming my Gaussian e^-r^2/2Nl (the Gaussian with x^2 replaced) is the numerator in my probability since this is the multiplicity function for arriving at r. The multiplicity of arriving anywhere should be the original Gaussian e^-2x/N, right?
That's not quite what I get. It should be x2, certainly, and I also get a factor ∝ 1/√N.
Please post your steps.
As a check, what should the integral over all x be?
 
Last edited:
  • #13
haruspex said:
That's not quite what I get. It should be x2, certainly, and I also get the factor as ∝ 1/√N.
Please post your steps.
As a check, what should the integral over all x be?
The Gaussian was derived in a previous question. If the distance traveled over N
haruspex said:
That's not quite what I get. It should be x2, certainly, and I also get the factor as ∝ 1/√N.
Please post your steps.
As a check, what should the integral over all x be?

Assuming that x is the distance over N/2 steps I can say that x=r/2l where r is position, l is step length, and the factor of 2 comes from having to account for the absolute value of step length since I do not want to end at 0 and I assume that for every step left there is an equal step right. Plugging x= r/2l into the Gaussian that was previously derived I get
e^(-2(r/2l)^2)/N
= e^-2(r^2/4l^2)/N
= e^-r^2/2Nl^2. This is the Gaussian for a random walk that ends at position r.

Since probability is multiplicity(r)/multiplicity(all) I assumed that multiplicity(all) would be my original e^(-2x^2/N) since this is all the possibilities, not just those that end at r.
 
  • #14
Kitty123 said:
The Gaussian was derived in a previous question.
Maybe, but it is incomplete. There should be a factor ##\frac 1{\sqrt{2\pi N}}## outside the exponential.
I am guessing the "x" you had in post #11 instead of "x2" was just a typo.
 
  • #15
haruspex said:
That's not quite what I get. It should be x2, certainly, and I also get the factor as ∝ 1/√N.
Please post your steps.
As a check, what should the integral over all x be?
The Gaussian was derived in a previous question. If the
haruspex said:
Maybe, but it is incomplete. There should be a factor ##\frac 1{\sqrt{2\pi N}}## outside the exponential.
I am guessing the "x" you had in post #11 instead of "x2" was just a typo.

Yes. That was a typo. The full Gaussian has a (2^N)*sqrt(2/pi*N) in front of the exponential... so there is a factor of 1/sqrt(N).

Am I correct in thinking that the multiplicity(all) in the probability should be the original Gaussian without the r^2/2l adjustment?
 
  • #16
Kitty123 said:
Am I correct in thinking that the multiplicity(all) in the probability should be the original Gaussian without the r^2/2l adjustment?
A multiplicity is an integer, a Gaussian is a probability distribution.
I think you are just being a bit sloppy with your usage of the terms, but that makes it very hard to answer your questions.
 
  • #17
A Gaussian was never explained to us as probability distribution. That makes this simpler. Thank you for your help.
 
  • #18
Kitty123 said:
A Gaussian was never explained to us as probability distribution. That makes this simpler. Thank you for your help.
I may have been a bit too specific there. Seems "Gaussian" is a bit more general in that its integral along the real line need not be 1. When normalized to 1 by a suitable constant factor it is a probability distribution.
See https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaussian_function.
 
  • #19
Thinking about the Gaussian here as a probability makes sense (it also makes the second part of the problem much easier!)

I will check out the link you sent after my kiddos go to bed! Thanks for all of your help!
 

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