Mass Below Jeans Mass: Implications for Systems

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of a system's mass being below the Jeans mass, particularly in the context of gravitational collapse and mass dissipation. Participants explore both early universe scenarios and present-day conditions, as well as connections to stellar evolution.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether a system below the Jeans mass will dissipate mass or if all gravitationally bound systems must be at the Jeans mass to avoid collapse.
  • It is noted that in the early universe, systems below the Jeans mass undergo oscillations, while those above it become gravitationally unstable.
  • One participant suggests that a system can collapse down to about half the Jeans mass, with more mass being expelled as the initial mass decreases, linking this to oscillations described as radial pulsations.
  • Another participant inquires if the oscillations discussed are similar to those observed in stellar evolution, particularly during gravitational collapse.
  • A response clarifies that the collapse process in stellar evolution may not involve pulsations but rather jet formation and stellar winds, which complicate the dynamics of mass loss.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of oscillations and the conditions under which gravitational collapse occurs, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain without consensus.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference complex phenomena such as pressure changes, sound waves, and opacity effects, which may influence the dynamics of gravitational collapse and mass dissipation, but these aspects remain unresolved in the discussion.

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What happens when the mass of a system is below Jeans mass? Will the system dissipate mass? Are all gravitationally bound systems required to be precisely the Jeans mass, to avoid gravitational collapse or dissipation of mass?
 
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In the early universe, when a system is below the Jeans mass, it undergoes oscillations. When it is greater than the Jeans mass, it becomes gravitationally unstable.
 
bapowell said:
In the early universe, when a system is below the Jeans mass, it undergoes oscillations. When it is greater than the Jeans mass, it becomes gravitationally unstable.

Ok, and what about in the present universe? And what does oscillations mean?
 
Ranku said:
What happens when the mass of a system is below Jeans mass? Will the system dissipate mass? Are all gravitationally bound systems required to be precisely the Jeans mass, to avoid gravitational collapse or dissipation of mass?

It doesn't have to be precisely at the Jeans mass for part of the mass in a volume to gravitationally collapse into a denser state. Down to about half the Jeans mass a system can collapse, but more matter is thrown off the lower the initial mass. That's due to the "oscillations" the other poster mentioned, which is a series of radial pulsations (if the system is spherical) that lose mass as the system collapses. Remember that the Jeans mass is achieved when gravitational self-attraction of a system causes it to collapse faster than pressure changes can smooth out over-dense regions i.e. sound/pressure waves can't smooth it out quick enough.
 
qraal said:
It doesn't have to be precisely at the Jeans mass for part of the mass in a volume to gravitationally collapse into a denser state. Down to about half the Jeans mass a system can collapse, but more matter is thrown off the lower the initial mass. That's due to the "oscillations" the other poster mentioned, which is a series of radial pulsations (if the system is spherical) that lose mass as the system collapses. Remember that the Jeans mass is achieved when gravitational self-attraction of a system causes it to collapse faster than pressure changes can smooth out over-dense regions i.e. sound/pressure waves can't smooth it out quick enough.

Is this the same oscillation seen in stellar evolution, where a star collapses alternately contracting and expanding, radiating away half of the released gravitational energy in accordance to the virial theorem?
 
Ranku said:
Is this the same oscillation seen in stellar evolution, where a star collapses alternately contracting and expanding, radiating away half of the released gravitational energy in accordance to the virial theorem?

Which bit of stellar evolution do you mean?
 
qraal said:
Which bit of stellar evolution do you mean?

I guess when a star is gravitationally collapsing.
 
Ranku said:
I guess when a star is gravitationally collapsing.

IN that case AFAIK the collapse process doesn't involve pulsation so much as jet formation and the intense early stellar wind, both of which throw off excess angular momentum that stars need to be rid of to collapse. But there's all sorts of complicated opacity effects too which slow down the escape of heat from the star. It's complicated.
 

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