Mass of a Black Hole: Answers & Questions

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mass of black holes, particularly focusing on where the mass is located, the implications of supernovae and hypernovae on black hole formation, and the nature of singularities. Participants explore theoretical concepts, physical implications, and the challenges of understanding black hole interiors.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how a black hole can have significant mass if much of it is ejected during supernova events, suggesting uncertainty about the mass's location.
  • Another participant states that while mass is concentrated in a small region, it is unlikely to be a singularity of zero size, proposing that unknown physics may prevent complete collapse.
  • A different viewpoint introduces the Hayward metric as a potential model that avoids singularities, suggesting that some mass may exist at a non-zero size.
  • Several participants discuss whether the mass of a black hole is located at the singularity or distributed throughout the region inside the event horizon, with some asserting that most of this region is vacuum.
  • One participant clarifies that outside the event horizon, the mass behaves like a point source, similar to other celestial objects.
  • Another participant emphasizes that the event horizon defines the observable size of a black hole, and its interior remains speculative, with the Planck density being a reasonable consideration.
  • One participant explains that the core of a star, which is denser than the outer layers, is what ultimately contributes to the black hole's mass after a supernova, referencing the Chandrasekhar Limit.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the nature of mass in black holes and the implications of singularities. The discussion remains unresolved, with no consensus on the exact location or nature of mass within black holes.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding assumptions about the nature of singularities, the definitions of mass concentration, and the speculative nature of black hole interiors. Mathematical steps and physical implications are not fully resolved.

Nemika
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OK, so we know that there is a supermassive black hole at the center of every galaxy. But I want to ask where is the mass of a black hole actually. When the black hole is formed and if there is a supernova or hypernova then much of the mass is ejected out then how can we says black hole has a significant mass. And if the mass is actually present is at the singularity and if yes than how is it possible for such a small point to possesses so much mass.
Please do correct me where I am wrong and thnx in advance for any reply.
 
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Nemika said:
OK, so we know that there is a supermassive black hole at the center of every galaxy. But I want to ask where is the mass of a black hole actually. When the black hole is formed and if there is a supernova or hypernova then much of the mass is ejected out then how can we says black hole has a significant mass. And if the mass is actually present is at the singularity and if yes than how is it possible for such a small point to possesses so much mass.
Please do correct me where I am wrong and thnx in advance for any reply.

We don't know.
A straightforward application of known physics tells us that the mass is concentrated in a very small region in the center - that makes sense and it's also implied by the same equations that predict that the black hole exists at all. However, we don't know just how small.

It's not likely that the mass really concentrates into a single point of zero size - your intuition that that is impossible is pretty convincing. By far the most likely answer is that some as yet unknown physics comes into play and stops the collapse at some very small but non-zero size. The equations of general relativity predict the same results for all space outside of this small but non-zero volume, so there is no contradiction with what we already do know about black holes.
 
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Sometimes the gravitational field of a black hole is referred to as a fossil field, it's the memory of the matter that has fallen into the black hole. See this link

Regarding the singularity, you could consider the Hayward metric which removes the singularity at around the Planck scale which could be considered a step in the right direction though still hypothetical (which is featured in the following papers)-

On the Effective Metric of a Planck Star
http://arxiv.org/abs/1412.6015

Formation and evaporation of non-singular black holes
http://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0506126

Any rotation might remove the singularity as Kerr metric is supposed to reintroduce timelike geodesics within the BH (though this second inner horizon is predicted to be unstable). Virtual particles would also play some part as they become highly energetic the closer the mass collapsed to the Planck scale.
 
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So can I consider that all the mass of the black hole is at singularity or is it present in the entire region inside event horizon of the BH. (I read the second one in a post..)
 
Nemika said:
So can I consider that all the mass of the black hole is at singularity or is it present in the entire region inside event horizon of the BH. (I read the second one in a post..)

Most of the region inside the event horizon is vacuum. Whether in a singularity or a small dense area that isn't quite a singularity, the mass is concentrated at the center.
 
Nemika said:
So can I consider that all the mass of the black hole is at singularity or is it present in the entire region inside event horizon of the BH. (I read the second one in a post..)
Certainly at any point outside the Event Horizon of a BH, the mass acts like a single point at the center, exactly as it does for ANY celestial object such as the Earth or the Sun. Beyond their surfaces, the mass acts like a point gravity source.
 
For all practical purposes the event horizon defines the size of a black hole. Since that is the limit to what we can observe, its interior structure is necessarily speculation. The best we can achieve at present is to mathematically limit the parameter space. The Planck density is currently a reasonable alternative to a dimensionless point.
 
Nemika said:
OK, so we know that there is a supermassive black hole at the center of every galaxy. But I want to ask where is the mass of a black hole actually. When the black hole is formed and if there is a supernova or hypernova then much of the mass is ejected out then how can we says black hole has a significant mass.

The mass which is ejected from a core-collapse supernova is the envelope of the star. The core of the star before collapse is composed of much denser material than the rest of the star. It's the core mass which winds up inside the event horizon of the black hole after it forms. The core must be greater than about 1.4 solar masses for it to collapse due to gravity, which is also known as the Chandrasekhar Limit.

If the original star was below about 20 solar masses, a neutron star will form after the collapse of the core, while the rest of the mass of the star is ejected in the supernova event.

If the original star has a mass between 40 and 50 solar masses, a black hole will form.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_II_supernova

The most massive neutron star which has been observed is about 2 solar masses. The smallest black hole observed is about 5 solar masses.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutron_star
 
Thanx everyone for the replies.
 

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