Mass suspended by bars in two configurations

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a physics problem involving a mass suspended from beams in two different configurations. Participants are exploring the relationship between tension, compression, and the vertical distance the mass travels within the elastic region of the materials involved.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss calculating tension and compression in both configurations, questioning how these forces affect the vertical movement of the mass. There are attempts to draw free body diagrams (FBDs) and analyze torque to understand the mechanics involved.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided guidance on the importance of considering both tension and compression in the analysis. There is an ongoing exploration of the implications of these forces on the height of the mass, with some questioning the assumptions made in the original reasoning.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working under the assumption that the beams have a finite modulus of elasticity and are discussing the effects of small changes in length on the overall system. There is a recognition of the complexity of the problem, with some expressing uncertainty about the straightforwardness of the solution.

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I have these two cases of a mass hanging from beams. The question is in which of the two cases will the mass travel the most distance in the vertical direction assuming we are in the elastic region.

All i can think of is to calculate the tension for each of the two cases, Whichever case has the biggest tension will be the one that will travel the most in the vertical direction. But i am not sure
 

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Welcome to the PF.

So each of the lines is a solid beam that has a finite modulus of elasticity? Can you show FBDs for all elements in each of the two diagrams? Thanks.
 
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Pauleta said:
Whichever case has the biggest tension
You have a tension and a compression. It may be that one arrangement has the greater tension while the other has the greater compression.
Create unknowns for the elasticity etc. and figure out what the changes in length would be. You will need to assume small changes and see what they imply for the drop of the mass.
 
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This is how i draw the FBD for the two cases (or what i believe it is) and based on those diagrams if i calculate the torques at the black dot my results show me that the Tension produced in case 1 is smaller than the Tension produced in case 2 and based this result i thought that since the tension is smaller the distance will be smaller

36963525_10156561696924507_552034165189509120_n.jpg
 

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Pauleta said:
This is how i draw the FBD for the two cases (or what i believe it is) and based on those diagrams if i calculate the torques at the black dot my results show me that the Tension produced in case 1 is smaller than the Tension produced in case 2 and based this result i thought that since the tension is smaller the distance will be smaller

View attachment 227838
There are two things wrong with that reasoning.
As I mentioned, you are overlooking that the lower member will be in compression, so will shrink. This will also affect the height of the mass.
Also, a change in length of a member does not lead to the same change in the height of the mass. Indeed, in your right-hand diagram, stretching the upper member a little will make no difference to the height of the mass.
 
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haruspex said:
There are two things wrong with that reasoning.
As I mentioned, you are overlooking that the lower member will be in compression, so will shrink. This will also affect the height of the mass.
Also, a change in length of a member does not lead to the same change in the height of the mass. Indeed, in your right-hand diagram, stretching the upper member a little will make no difference to the height of the mass.

I think i am missing something fundamental here. Are you saying there is no straight-forward solution to that problem or is it that i am oversimplifying it?

What if i draw the FBD in a different coordinate system without taking into account the tension. Just analysing the mass in the 2 cases. If i do it like that i can see that in the first case the mass creates tension whereas in the other case the mass creates compression to the longer beam.
36828547_10156561728129507_345248386288451584_n.jpg
 

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Pauleta said:
i am oversimplifying it?
Yes.
Pauleta said:
in the first case the mass creates tension whereas in the other case the mass creates compression to the longer beam.
If you draw the full FBDs you will see that in both cases the upper is under tension and the lower is under compression.
 

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