Massless Particles: Gauge Bosons, Photons & Gluons

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the nature of massless particles, specifically gauge bosons, photons, and gluons, exploring their significance and the implications of being massless within the framework of quantum field theory. Participants delve into theoretical aspects, analogies, and experimental detection of these particles.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants explain that gauge bosons are massless due to the requirements of gauge symmetries, which necessitate massless force carriers.
  • Others describe massless particles as those that can be formed with arbitrarily low energy, using analogies such as a wiggly sheet of rubber to illustrate the concept.
  • One participant notes that while massless particles travel at the speed of light, they do not undergo 'instantaneous acceleration' as they are always at that speed.
  • Concerns are raised about the experimental detection of massless particles, with some arguing that they can be detected through their energy and momentum transfer during interactions.
  • A participant mentions that massless particles can exhibit different behaviors in various media, such as traveling slower than light in water or glass.
  • There is a discussion about the relationship between mass and inertia in the quantum realm, with some participants expressing confusion about the concept of masslessness.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the implications of masslessness, with some agreeing on the theoretical framework while others challenge or seek clarification on specific points. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the broader implications of massless particles and their detection.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight the distinction between gauge symmetries that are unbroken and those that are not, noting that this affects the mass of certain gauge bosons like the W and Z bosons. There is also mention of the limitations of understanding mass in the quantum context compared to classical interpretations.

monty37
Messages
225
Reaction score
1
in what way are gauge bosons ,photons and gluons massless?
please explain the significance of the massless nature,i mean every particle is supposed
to have mass?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
In the standard model, particles are described as excited states of a (quantum) field. A simplified picture of a field would be wiggly sheet of rubber. We can distinguish between two kinds of fields:

(Massless) This is a sheet of rubber that is so free to wiggle that no matter how lightly you touch it you will set off a vibrational motion.

(Massive) This is a sheet of rubber that is not so free to wiggle, and in fact if you poke it with a strength below some threshold (i.e. the mass gap) it will not wiggle at all.

Therefore gluons and photons are massless because they can be formed with arbitrarily low amounts of energy (i.e. you get a wiggle no matter how softly you push).

It's not true that every particle must have mass, all a particle needs in order to interact with matter is to carry energy/momentum.
 
Every particle satisfies [itex]E^2=\vec p^2c^2+m^2c^4[/itex], where m is the mass, p the momentum and E the energy. So if a particle satisfies [itex]E^2=\vec p^2 c^2[/itex], it's massless.

The fact that every particle must satisfy that equation is a part of the definition of "particle" in relativistic quantum mechanics, which is rather technical.
 
Civilized said:
In the standard model, particles are described as excited states of a (quantum) field. A simplified picture of a field would be wiggly sheet of rubber. We can distinguish between two kinds of fields:

(Massless) This is a sheet of rubber that is so free to wiggle that no matter how lightly you touch it you will set off a vibrational motion.

(Massive) This is a sheet of rubber that is not so free to wiggle, and in fact if you poke it with a strength below some threshold (i.e. the mass gap) it will not wiggle at all.

Therefore gluons and photons are massless because they can be formed with arbitrarily low amounts of energy (i.e. you get a wiggle no matter how softly you push).

It's not true that every particle must have mass, all a particle needs in order to interact with matter is to carry energy/momentum.
Interesting analogy, I like it :approve:
 
monty37 said:
in what way are gauge bosons ,photons and gluons massless?

By calling them "GAUGE" bosons, you have already answered your question! Gauge symmetries require the force carriers to be massless.
 
samalkhaiat said:
By calling them "GAUGE" bosons, you have already answered your question! Gauge symmetries require the force carriers to be massless.

Just to point out the obvious, this only holds for gauge symmetries that are unbroken in nature, case in point being the W and Z gauge bosons which are approximately 1000 times as massive as the proton.
 
monty37 said:
in what way are gauge bosons ,photons and gluons massless?
please explain the significance of the massless nature,i mean every particle is supposed
to have mass?

Monty,

This revelation surprised me, too. Please - Anyone please correct me if I say this wrong.

One thing to remember about mass is that in the quantum world it is a gauge of an objects inertia. A particle that is mass-less instantaneously accelerates to the speed of light, and travels only at this speed. Surprisingly, though, a mass-less particle CAN be affected by the force of gravity, as photons are.

In the macro world most non-physicists (including myself) tend to relate mass to weight. I don't believe this correlation is as closely related in the quantum world.

Daisey
 
A particle that is mass-less instantaneously accelerates to the speed of light, and travels only at this speed.

It's true that massless particle travel only at the speed of light, but there is nothing in physics that corresponds to an 'instantaneous acceleration' for massless particles - they never accelerate at all.

This does not have to be so mysterious -- if you cast a ripple in a shallow pool of water then the ripple does not accelerate, it always propagates at a characteristic speed (that depends only on the density of the material and the depth of the water, for shallow water waves).

In the classical theory of light as an EM wave, there is no notion of the waves accelerating to speed c, they just always travel at that speed. This is the way that waves work in general, they travel at a characteristic speed that depends on the medium (vacuum in the case of light waves).
 
well,how were these particles detected experimentally,as they have no mass?
iam sorry but i just can't digest that"massless" factor,please elaborate
 
  • #10
monty37 said:
well,how were these particles detected experimentally,as they have no mass?
iam sorry but i just can't digest that"massless" factor,please elaborate

The thing is that they carry energy and momentum. Those massless particles can travel through space and give us sunburn at the beach! A laser can cut through steel using massless particles, because they can carry lots of energy. More generally, massless particles are detected when they smash into targets and transfer energy and momentum to them.
 
  • #11
monty37 said:
well,how were these particles detected experimentally,as they have no mass?

Even with no mass, they have other attributes that make them "noticeable" to experiments.
 
  • #12
A massless particle (a photon, for example) can travel with v<c in water, glass, and in other "transparent" materials with n>1. There is a reference frame where such a photon is at rest: there the photon is just a standing electromagnetic wave.

In relativistic mechanics the systems exchange with energies while interactions, not with masses, so the notion of mass is somewhat secondary. The main feature of a particle is posessing the energy-momentum to exchange (to receive and to give away).

Bob.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 36 ·
2
Replies
36
Views
4K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
1K
  • · Replies 19 ·
Replies
19
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 119 ·
4
Replies
119
Views
10K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K