Math Beyond Matrices: Is There Anything Else?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the concept of mathematical structures beyond matrices, specifically focusing on tensors and higher-dimensional number systems. Participants inquire about the nature of these structures and their relationships to familiar mathematical entities like scalars and vectors.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant, Dan, questions whether there are mathematical constructs beyond matrices, suggesting a "3-D matrix" concept.
  • Another participant proposes that tensors may represent the next step, indicating a generalization of matrices and vectors.
  • Some participants outline a hierarchy of mathematical objects: scalar (rank 0 tensor), vector (rank 1 tensor), and tensor (rank 2 or higher).
  • A participant clarifies that tensors are defined not just as arrays of numbers but by their behavior under coordinate transformations.
  • Complex numbers are mentioned as an extension beyond real numbers, with further extensions to quaternions and octonions discussed, noting the loss of certain properties at higher levels.
  • There is a distinction made between matrices and tensors, emphasizing that while a second-order tensor can be represented as a matrix, they are fundamentally different concepts.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the hierarchical structure of mathematical objects leading to tensors, but there is some debate regarding the definitions and properties of matrices versus tensors. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of higher-dimensional number systems.

Contextual Notes

Participants express varying levels of familiarity with tensors and higher-dimensional numbers, leading to some uncertainty in definitions and relationships. The discussion includes assumptions about the properties of these mathematical constructs that are not fully explored.

danago
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I was just thinking, and thought this would be the best place to ask. So far in maths I've come across real numbers, then vectors in multiple dimensions, and then matrices. Is there anything beyond this? Is there anything in maths that goes to the next step and perhaps takes a 'cube' or numbers, in a similar way to how a matrix is a square array (or rectangular) of numbers? I guess it would be similar to a "3-D matrix". Sorry if i haven't really explained myself well.

Thanks,
Dan.
 
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Is this effectively what a tensor is? I have never looked at tensors before, but i remember somebody saying a tensor is a generalization of matrices/vectors etc.
 
I think it goes scalar-vector-tensor. beyond that I don't know.

maybe that's what they call a tensor of rank 2.
 
danago said:
Is this effectively what a tensor is? I have never looked at tensors before, but i remember somebody saying a tensor is a generalization of matrices/vectors etc.
Yes, that is the best answer to what you're describing, although it's not quite right to think of real numbers as a starting point.

A scalar (i.e. a one-dimensional number in the normal sense) is called a "rank 0 tensor"; a vector in n dimensions, which can be represented by a 1xn matrix, is a "rank 1" tensor; then you have quantities of higher rank, such as the inertia tensor representing the distribution of mass in a body, that can be represented by nxn matrices and are "rank 2" or higher tensors.

The important thing about all these tensors is that they are not simply arrays of numbers. What really defines them is the way they behave under rotations of the underlying coordinate systems. Not every 1xn array of numbers can be interpreted as a vector, and similarly not every nxn matrix represents a rank 2 tensor.

As for extensions beyond real numbers, have you studied complex numbers? One way to understand them is as vectors in the "complex plane", reflecting the fact that any complex number is an inherently 2-component object. They can also be represented as ordered pairs of real numbers with special rules for how to add, subtract, multiply, etc. them.

Complex numbers can then be extended to quaternions, which can be represented as ordered pairs of complex numbers, and as such have four component parts. Next is octonions, which have eight components, but that's as far as you can go. Each higher level of number loses some of the properties that make numbers useful (quaternions don't obey the commutative law of multiplication, and octonions don't obey the associative law of multiplication over addition), and going any higher become impossible (as far as I know, at least).
 
Thanks for the replies everyone, answered my question spot on :smile:
 
Note, however, that "matrix" and "tensor" are very different things. I second order tensor corresponds more closely to a linear transformation from a two dimensional vector space to itself. With a given basis or coordinate system we can represent a such a linear transformation as a matrix. Vectors, linear transformations, and tensors are independent of the particular basis or coordinate system used. n-tuples of numbers, matrices, etc. are ways of representing those vectors, linear transformations, and tensors in a particular coordinate system.
 

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