Max Homework Statement: Proving f attains Max at c

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around proving that a function \( f \) attains a maximum at a point \( c \) given that \( f'(c) = 0 \) and \( f''(c) < 0 \). The context is within the realm of calculus, specifically concerning critical points and the behavior of derivatives.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the implications of the second derivative being negative and the first derivative being zero at \( c \). There are attempts to establish the behavior of \( f' \) around \( c \) and to derive contradictions if \( c \) is not a maximum. Some participants question the assumptions regarding continuity and differentiability of \( f \).

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with various approaches being suggested to analyze the behavior of the function around the point \( c \). Some participants provide insights into the implications of the derivatives, while others express uncertainty about certain assumptions and the rigor of the arguments presented.

Contextual Notes

There are mentions of potential constraints regarding the continuity and differentiability of \( f \) on certain intervals, which may affect the application of the mean value theorem. Additionally, participants are navigating the implications of their assumptions about the function's behavior near \( c \).

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Homework Statement
Let f: U -> R where U is an open subset of R. Suppose that for some c in U, f'(c) = 0 and f''(c) < 0. Proof that the restriction of f to some open ball of center c attains a maximum at c.The attempt at a solution
Let e > 0. Then for some d' > 0, if |x - c| < d' then |f(x) - f(c)| ≤ e|x - c| since f'(c) = 0. Let f''(c) = -b for some positive b. Then for some d'' > 0, if |x - c| < d'' then |f'(x) + b(x - c)| ≤ e|x - c|. Thus, for d = min{d', d''}, if |x - c| < d then

|f(x) - f(c)| ≤ e|x - c| and |f'(x) + b(x - c)| ≤ e|x - c|.

Of course, what I need is f(x) ≤ f(c). I don't see how to get that from the above. Any tips?
 
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Assuming you know f'(x) > 0 implies f is increasing in a ball around x:

Sketch argument:
f''(c)<0 means f' is decreasing in a ball around c. Hence as f'(c)=0, f'(x)>0 if x<c and f'(x)<0 if x>c for x close to c. If c isn't a maximum, there exists x s.t. f(x)>f(c). -> in between x and c, there exists d s.t. f'(d) = f(x)-f(c)/(x-c) What can you say about the sign of f'(d)?
 
Office_Shredder said:
Assuming you know f'(x) > 0 implies f is increasing in a ball around x:
I was not aware of this fact. I will attempt to prove it on my own.

f''(c)<0 means f' is decreasing in a ball around c. Hence as f'(c)=0, f'(x)>0 if x<c and f'(x)<0 if x>c for x close to c. If c isn't a maximum, there exists x s.t. f(x)>f(c). -> in between x and c, there exists d s.t. f'(d) = f(x)-f(c)/(x-c) What can you say about the sign of f'(d)?
If f'(d) is negative, x < c, but then we get a contradiction since f'(x) > 0 if x < c. A similar contradiction occurs if f'(d) is positive. So then f'(d) = 0 and f(x) = f(c), another contradiction. Thus c is a maximum.

Cool. Thanks a lot.
 
Office_Shredder said:
Assuming you know f'(x) > 0 implies f is increasing in a ball around x:

This is more difficult than I thought. All I've been able to derive is the following: Let e > 0. Then there is a d > 0 such that if |y - x| < d, then

|f(y)| < (e + f'(x))|y - x| + |f(x)|.

But this doesn't help in determining that f(a) ≤ f(b) if a < b where a, b are in the ball of radius d centered at x.
 
If f'(y)>0 for some y, then [tex]\lim_{x \rightarrow y} \frac{f(x)-f(y)}{x-y} > 0[/tex]

So heuristically (you can make this rigorous), near y, if x<y, f(x)<f(y) as otherwise the [tex]\frac{f(x)-f(y)}{x-y} < 0[/tex] and if x>y, f(x)>f(y) as otherwise [tex]\frac{f(x)-f(y)}{x-y} < 0[/tex] just by noting the numerator and denominator have opposite signs
 
It never occurred to me to look at [f(x) - f(y)] / (x - y). I understand your idea. However, that only shows that for some ball B centered at y, if x in B and x < y, then f(x) < f(y). It doesn't prove that f is increasing in B. For example, let x' in B and suppose x < x' < y. What can we conclude about f(x) versus f(x')?
 
Office_Shredder said:
Assuming you know f'(x) > 0 implies f is increasing in a ball around x:

Sketch argument:
f''(c)<0 means f' is decreasing in a ball around c. Hence as f'(c)=0, f'(x)>0 if x<c and f'(x)<0 if x>c for x close to c. If c isn't a maximum, there exists x s.t. f(x)>f(c). -> in between x and c, there exists d s.t. f'(d) = f(x)-f(c)/(x-c) What can you say about the sign of f'(d)?
I don't think we need for f to be increasing. It's enough to show that f'(x)>0 if x<c and f'(x)<0 if x>c for x close to c.

Another comment: You seem to be using the mean value theorem for the existence of d, but we can't use it for we don't know whether f is continuous and differentiable on [x,c] (or [c,x]).
 

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