Max Speed of Molecules: 1 Electron Stripped?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the maximum speed achievable by full molecules, particularly in the context of relativistic speeds and the potential for molecular disintegration at high accelerations. Participants explore the implications of these speeds for complex structures and interstellar travel.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the maximum speed of full molecules, expressing concern that it may be significantly lower than the speed of light (c), which could impact the feasibility of interstellar travel.
  • Another participant asserts that speed does not affect a bound system due to the principle of relativity, suggesting that while high acceleration can cause disintegration, it does not limit the speed achievable.
  • Some participants note that speed is relative, and that Earth is already moving at high relativistic speeds with respect to certain frames of reference.
  • A participant challenges the initial concern about maximum speeds, stating there is no experimental or theoretical basis for such fears regarding complex structures.
  • Discussion includes references to the behavior of monotomic hydrogen in the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) and its speed, with some participants questioning whether this example meets the criteria of a full molecule.
  • There is a reiteration of the idea that if acceleration is sufficiently low, molecules can theoretically reach speeds close to c without breaking apart, although practical limitations are acknowledged.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of speed and acceleration for molecules, with some asserting that high speeds can be achieved while others remain skeptical about the feasibility of such speeds for complex structures. The discussion does not reach a consensus on the maximum speeds or the implications for interstellar travel.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention the effects of centripetal acceleration at high speeds, indicating that achieving speeds close to c for molecules on Earth may be constrained by practical limitations. The discussion also reflects varying interpretations of the principles of relativity as they apply to molecular speeds.

DanMP
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TL;DR
What is the maximum speed we accelerated molecules without striping more than one electron?
I know that we accelerated charged particles very close to the speed of light. How about a full molecule, with at least 2 nuclei and most of the electrons? What is the maximum speed achieved/recorded before the molecule broke apart?

I ask this question because I'm afraid that the maximum speed of travel for complex structures (like us, our robots, etc.) may be much lower than c. If it is much lower, then interstellar travel may be even less possible/appealing.
 
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DanMP said:
How about a full molecule, with at least 2 nuclei and most of the electrons?
Speed itself has no effect on a bound system. It can't by the principle of relativity.

It's possible that a large enough acceleration could cause a molecule to break apart, but that doesn't limit the speed you can reach, it just limits the acceleration you can use to reach it.
 
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Other side of the coin: since speed is relative, we/earth are already traveling at high relativistic speed in/with respect to some frames/objects.
 
DanMP said:
I'm afraid that the maximum speed of travel for complex structures (like us, our robots, etc.) may be much lower than c.
There is no experimental or theoretical basis for this fear.
 
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It's not clear why this is in Relativity, but the monotomic hydrogen in the LHC has only one electron stripped and is going pretty darn fast.

If this doesn't "count", as I suspect it doesn't, we can add this thread to the list of the OP's "guess what I mean" threads.
 
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PeterDonis said:
Speed itself has no effect on a bound system. It can't by the principle of relativity.

It's possible that a large enough acceleration could cause a molecule to break apart, but that doesn't limit the speed you can reach, it just limits the acceleration you can use to reach it.
So, if the acceleration is low enough we can reach any speed, below c, without braking apart?

I was about to ask for some estimation of this maximum acceleration and to insist about a maximum speed obtained in a particle accelerator for a molecule with only one electron missing (in order to become charged), but I realized that, at high speeds, centripetal acceleration gets very big, so it's impossible to achieve really high speeds (close to c) for molecules, here on Earth, without very large accelerations.

In this case, there is no point to continue here. Thank you for your answer!
 
Vanadium 50 said:
the monotomic hydrogen in the LHC has only one electron stripped and is going pretty darn fast
What you offered seems to be a proton, and I said:
DanMP said:
at least 2 nuclei and most of the electrons
 
DanMP said:
So, if the acceleration is low enough we can reach any speed, below c, without braking apart?
As measured relative to an ion doing 0.9999c in an accelerator, you are doing 0.9999c. Unless you reject the principle of relativity you already have ample evidence that molecules can reach very nearly the speed of light.
 
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DanMP said:
So, if the acceleration is low enough we can reach any speed, below c, without braking apart?
Yes.
 
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DanMP said:
In this case, there is no point to continue here. Thank you for your answer!
You're welcome! This thread is now closed.
 

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