Mean Curvature at Extremum Points on a Closed Surface

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of mean curvature at extremum points on a closed surface, particularly focusing on the implications of mean curvature at the farthest point from the origin. Participants explore the relationship between mean curvature, Gauss curvature, and the geometric characteristics of surfaces in three-dimensional space.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the mean curvature at an extremum point where the function vanishes must be nonpositive.
  • Others question whether this implies anything about the sign of the mean curvature at the farthest point from the origin on a closed surface.
  • One participant clarifies that they are referring to a real smooth function of two variables whose graph forms a closed surface in R3.
  • There is a discussion about the mean curvature of standard shapes, with one participant noting that the mean curvature of a sphere is strictly positive.
  • Another participant mentions that Gauss curvature can be positive even if the principal curvatures are negative, leading to confusion about the implications for mean curvature.
  • Some participants suggest that at the farthest point from the origin, the surface must be convex, which may imply a positive mean curvature.
  • There is a classical argument presented about surrounding the surface with a large sphere, leading to the conclusion that the surface must be tangent to the sphere and thus convex at that point.
  • Participants express uncertainty about the conditions under which principal curvatures can be negative and how that relates to mean curvature.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of mean curvature and Gauss curvature, with no consensus reached on whether the mean curvature at the farthest point must be positive or what conditions lead to that conclusion.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of the relationship between mean curvature and principal curvatures, noting that the discussion involves assumptions about convexity and the behavior of surfaces in three-dimensional space.

hedipaldi
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Hi,
I know that the mean curvature at an extremum point where the function vanishes must be nonpositive.can this say something about the sign of the mean curvature at the farthest point on a close surface from the origin?
Thank's
Hedi
 
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hedipaldi said:
Hi,
I know that the mean curvature at an extremum point where the function vanishes must be nonpositive.can this say something about the sign of the mean curvature at the farthest point on a close surface from the origin?
Thank's
Hedi

You need to explain what you are talking about more clearly. What function?
 
I mean a real smooth function of two variables whose graph is a closed surface in R3
 
hedipaldi said:
I mean a real smooth function of two variables whose graph is a closed surface in R3

so you mean the mean curvature of the graph?

Isn't the mean curvature of the standard sphere strictly positive - in fact for any surface of positive Gauss curvature?

There is a therem that says that any closed surface in 3 space must have a point of positive Gauss curvature. At this point the mean curvature is positive.
 
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But Gauss curvature is positive also if the two principal curvatures are negative.at the farthest point from the origin, the surface is enclosed within a ball whose boundary shares a common tangent plane with the surface at this point.It seems that this implies that the mean curvature of the surface at this point must have a definite sign.I don't know what sign and how to explain it.
 
hedipaldi said:
But Gauss curvature is positive also if the two principal curvatures are negative.at the farthest point from the origin, the surface is enclosed within a ball whose boundary shares a common tangent plane with the surface at this point.It seems that this implies that the mean curvature of the surface at this point must have a definite sign.I don't know what sign and how to explain it.

right. My mistake. But for a sphere or an ellipsoid or any convex surface of positive curvature, the principal curvatures should both be positive. Yes?.

I am having trouble visualizing the case of both negative principal curvatures. May it can happen at a single point but in a region?can you give an example?
 
The surface must be convex at the farthest point so if this forces positive mean corvature'we are done,but i am not sure of it.
 
At a saddle point Gauss curvature is negative so one of the principal directions is negative.this may help for imagining a negative principal direction.
 
hedipaldi said:
At a saddle point Gauss curvature is negative so one of the principal directions is negative.this may help for imagining a negative principal direction.

Ok. Now I see what your question is.

A classical argument says - surround the surface with a very large sphere centered at the origin and let it's radius shrink until it first touches the surface.At this point the surface and the sphere are tangent and the entire surface lies on the inside of the sphere. Therefore the surface must be convex at this point.
 
  • #10
Right.Doed it implies something about the sign of the mean curvature at the farthest point?
 
  • #11
hedipaldi said:
Right.Doed it implies something about the sign of the mean curvature at the farthest point?

I think so. In order for the surface to be tangent it must curve away from the surrounding sphere in all directions so the principal curvatures must both be positive.
 
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