Meaning of Third Eigenvalue in a Tilted Ellipse in a 3x3 Matrix

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the interpretation of the third eigenvalue in the context of a tilted ellipse represented by a 3x3 symmetric matrix. Participants explore the implications of this eigenvalue in relation to the geometry of ellipses and potential extensions to ellipsoids, considering both linear and quadratic terms in the matrix representation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a method to model tilted ellipses using a 3x3 symmetric matrix, questioning the meaning of the three eigenvalues derived from this matrix.
  • Another participant suggests that if the ellipse lies in the xy-plane, the third eigenvalue could correspond to the z-axis of an ellipsoid, potentially being zero.
  • A later reply clarifies that the vector used in the matrix formulation is (x, y, 1), which may affect the interpretation of the eigenvalues, noting that all eigenvalues in their example are non-zero.
  • Another participant discusses the construction of the matrix and its implications, indicating that the eigenvalues may not have meaningful interpretations for a 2D ellipse unless specific conditions are met.
  • There is a suggestion to eliminate linear terms to better understand the geometry of the ellipse, proposing a transformation that translates and scales the ellipse.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the significance of the third eigenvalue and its relationship to the geometry of the ellipse. There is no consensus on the interpretation of the eigenvalues or the validity of the proposed modeling approach.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the dimensionality of the problem and the implications of linear versus quadratic terms in the matrix representation. The relationship between the eigenvalues and the geometry of the ellipse remains unresolved.

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TL;DR
I modeled an ellipse of the form x^2 + 2bx + 2cxy + 2dy + ey^2=1 with a 3x3 matrix and am unsure what the meaning of the third eigenvalue is, since there are only two axes.
While reading the Strang textbook on tilted ellipses in the form of ax^2+2bxy +cy^2=1, I got to thinking about ellipses of the form ax^2 + 2bx + 2cxy + 2dy + ey^2=1 and wondered if I could model them through 3x3 symmetric matrices. I think I figured out something that worked for xT A x, where x = (x, y, 1). For example, x^2+4x+6xy+8y+2y^2=1 has matrix A with row 1= 1,3,2; row 2= 3,2,4; row 3=2,4,0

Anyway, my question involves the meaning of the three eigenvalues. In the 2x2 case, they are the semi-major and semi-minor axes. What about in this 3x3 case? I would assume two of them are again related to the axes, but what about the third? Or perhaps I just made up a procedure that was non-sensical.

Also, I assume this is a linear algebra topic, but if it would be better somewhere else, please let me know.
 
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Say an ellipse is on xy plane, I guess z axis might be the third one of ellipsoid with eigenvalue zero.
 
Last edited:
anuttarasammyak said:
Say an ellipse is on xy plane, I guess z axis might be the third one of ellipsoid with eigenvalue zero.

I think you'd be right if my vector, x, was (x, y, z), but it's (x, y, 1). I was doing that to account for 2bx and a 2dy terms (whereas the 2 x 2 only has x^2, y^2, and xy terms). Perhaps this step isn't valid, but without my choice of this vector, I don't know how you'd model something like x^2 + 4x +6xy + 8y + 2y^2 with a positive definite matrix. For this example, I checked the eigenvalues and they are all non-zero (approximately -1.05, -3.15, 7.21).
 
You are starting with f(x,y,z) = ax^2 + 2cxy + ey^2 + 2bxz + 2dyz and setting z = 1.

Whether the eigenvalues mean anything depends on how you construct your matrix. If you construct a symmetric 3x3 matrix they likely don't mean anything for your 2D ellipse. However, if you set <br /> A = \begin{pmatrix} a &amp; c &amp; 0 \\ c &amp; e &amp; 0 \\ 2b &amp; 2d &amp; 0 \end{pmatrix} then (0,0,1) is an eigenvector with eigenvalue 0. The other eigenvalues are then the eigenvalues of <br /> \begin{pmatrix} a &amp; c \\ c &amp; e \end{pmatrix}. The components of the eigenvectors satisfy <br /> \begin{align*} ax + cy &amp;= \lambda x \\ cx + ey &amp;= \lambda y \end{align*} as for the 2x2 matrix, but also <br /> 2(bx + dy) = \lambda z which is the only equation involving z and is immediately solved.

However it may be better to eliminate the linear terms by writing <br /> ax^2 + 2cxy + ey^2 + 2bx + 2dy = a(x - x_0)^2 + 2c(x - x_0)(y - y_0) + e(y - y_0)^2 - C where <br /> \begin{align*} ax_0 + cy_0 &amp;= -b \\ cx_0 + ey_0 &amp;= -d \\ ax_0^2 + 2cx_0y_0 + ey_0^2 &amp;= C \end{align*} and <br /> ax^2 + 2cxy + ey^2 + 2bx + 2dy = 1 becomes <br /> \frac{a}{1+ C}(x - x_0)^2 + \frac{2c}{1 + C}(x -x_0)(y - y_0) + \frac{e}{1 + C}(y - y_0)^2 = 1. So the effect of the linear terms is to translate and scale the ellipse.
 
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